Switch to English Language Passer en langue française Omschakelen naar Nederlandse Taal Wechseln Sie zu deutschen Sprache Passa alla lingua italiana
Members: 71,849   Posts: 1,582,836   Online: 725
      
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 26
  1. #1

    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Ajman - U.A.E.
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    958

    Developer working solution or dilution

    I bought 2 developers but i can't understand what is written on the bottles, so i will ask here, and i apologize if this question was asked to death.

    When it is written, to make 1Gallon or 2 Gallon and so, what does that mean? Should i mix the entire bottle liquid for that written to make quantity or just i dilute as necessary until i can reach that written quantity? So if i have one bottle that has written the developer to make 1US Gallon, how much i should dilute to have that amount at the end? I had one of those developer before but it was written to make 5L, but i was using just the diluted solution and didn't mix the whole liquid for 5L, any guidance here please???

  2. #2

    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    8,021
    Images
    4
    "To make" means that is the final solution volume once everything is mixed according to the instructions.

    Comparing the amount of concentrate to the final volume gives you a ratio. Sometimes it is possible to apply that ratio to make smaller batches of some solution. We do this with liquid fixer and developer concentrates all the time, when we make, say, only one liter of working solution from a bottle that says "to make" ten liters." Other times it is not possible or advisable. For example, if the amounts are too small to precisely measure, you would not want to do it. Also, for best results, it is not OK with pre-mixed powders at any time, only with liquid chemicals. This is because one cannot assure uniform distribution of all the ingredients in a bag of pre-mixed powdered chemicals.
    2F/2F

    "Truth and love are my law and worship. Form and conscience are my manifestation and guide. Nature and peace are my shelter and companions. Order is my attitude. Beauty and perfection are my attack."

    - Rob Tyner (1944 - 1991)

  3. #3
    MattKing's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Delta, British Columbia, Canada
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    12,926
    Images
    60
    What developers are they?

    In most cases, the "to make X gallons/liters" phrase on the bottles isn't a mixing instruction, but rather a clue as to how much value you are getting when you buy the bottle.

    Most bottles also have mixing and dilution instructions printed on them. If they don't, it probably means that there are a variety of options available, and there isn't enough room on the bottle to describe them all (Kodak HC110 is a good example of that).

    Most likely there is a web document which covers mixing plus a lot of other issues.

    In general though, 2F/2F's comments above are correct.
    Matt

    “Photography is a complex and fluid medium, and its many factors are not applied in simple sequence. Rather, the process may be likened to the art of the juggler in keeping many balls in the air at one time!”

    Ansel Adams, from the introduction to The Negative - The New Ansel Adams Photography Series / Book 2

  4. #4

    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Ajman - U.A.E.
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    958
    Quote Originally Posted by 2F/2F View Post
    "To make" means that is the final solution volume once everything is mixed according to the instructions.

    Comparing the amount of concentrate to the final volume gives you a ratio. Sometimes it is possible to apply that ratio to make smaller batches of some solution. We do this with liquid fixer and developer concentrates all the time, when we make, say, only one liter of working solution from a bottle that says "to make" ten liters." Other times it is not possible or advisable. For example, if the amounts are too small to precisely measure, you would not want to do it. Also, for best results, it is not OK with pre-mixed powders at any time, only with liquid chemicals. This is because one cannot assure uniform distribution of all the ingredients in a bag of pre-mixed powdered chemicals.
    THank you very much for your answer but i couldn't understand it well, so is that mean i have to mix all the dev liquid in the bottle for that given "To make" and divided them into smaller batches bottles? or just i dilute the liquid as needed?

  5. #5

    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Ajman - U.A.E.
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    958
    Quote Originally Posted by MattKing View Post
    What developers are they?

    In most cases, the "to make X gallons/liters" phrase on the bottles isn't a mixing instruction, but rather a clue as to how much value you are getting when you buy the bottle.

    Most bottles also have mixing and dilution instructions printed on them. If they don't, it probably means that there are a variety of options available, and there isn't enough room on the bottle to describe them all (Kodak HC110 is a good example of that).

    Most likely there is a web document which covers mixing plus a lot of other issues.

    In general though, 2F/2F's comments above are correct.
    TMAX liquid
    HC110

    I bought 2 bottles of each, so i have 4 total bottles.

    On one is written to make 1 US Gallon and the other dev written to make 2 US Gallons, what i should do?

  6. #6

    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    8,021
    Images
    4
    In this particular case, I'd mix them as needed. You will waste less that way.

    You can mix up the T-Max right before use. Now that you mention it, I've never actually seen anyone mix up the whole gallon at once.

    The HC-110 can be mixed into small batches of stock solution by using a 1:3 ratio (25 percent syrup and 75 percent water). I use stock solution as an intermediate dilution, making batches of one pint at a time. But some people skip the stock solution entirely and mix straight from the syrup. The easiest way to do this is to make U.S. quart of dilution B working solution. All you have to do is mix 31 oz. of water and 1 oz. of syrup. No syringes required.

    (The word "syrup" is a nickname for "concentrate.")
    Last edited by 2F/2F; 08-04-2011 at 02:02 AM. Click to view previous post history.
    2F/2F

    "Truth and love are my law and worship. Form and conscience are my manifestation and guide. Nature and peace are my shelter and companions. Order is my attitude. Beauty and perfection are my attack."

    - Rob Tyner (1944 - 1991)

  7. #7
    MattKing's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Delta, British Columbia, Canada
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    12,926
    Images
    60
    There is a veritable library of Kodak technical publications on the internet:

    This link will help you find many of them:

    http://www.kodak.com/global/en/profe...18/13629/14024

    in particular, here is the link for the technical information (including mixing directions) publication for T-Max developer:

    http://www.kodak.com/global/en/profe...bs/j86/j86.pdf

    HC-110 has its own publication as well. But before you look at it, you need to understand that it was intended to be usable in a very wide variety of commercial and other applications. To accomplish that, it was designed to be used in a wide variety of dilutions. Most of the `standard` dilutions are designated by letters (A, B, E, F etc.). The most widely used dilution is dilution B which is accomplished by adding 31 parts water to 1 part of syrup (concentrate).

    2F/2Fs post explains the two ways of getting to that working dilution (either making an intermediate 1 + 3 stock solution, and then further diluting the stock 1 + 7, or going straight from concentrate to working by adding 31 parts water to 1 part of syrup (concentrate)).

    As a near beginner, when you read the following it is probably best to stick with dilution B, and for now ignore the information about the other dilutions:

    http://www.kodak.com/global/en/profe...?pq-path=14033
    Matt

    “Photography is a complex and fluid medium, and its many factors are not applied in simple sequence. Rather, the process may be likened to the art of the juggler in keeping many balls in the air at one time!”

    Ansel Adams, from the introduction to The Negative - The New Ansel Adams Photography Series / Book 2

  8. #8

    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Ajman - U.A.E.
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    958
    Quote Originally Posted by MattKing View Post
    There is a veritable library of Kodak technical publications on the internet:

    This link will help you find many of them:

    http://www.kodak.com/global/en/profe...18/13629/14024

    in particular, here is the link for the technical information (including mixing directions) publication for T-Max developer:

    http://www.kodak.com/global/en/profe...bs/j86/j86.pdf

    HC-110 has its own publication as well. But before you look at it, you need to understand that it was intended to be usable in a very wide variety of commercial and other applications. To accomplish that, it was designed to be used in a wide variety of dilutions. Most of the `standard` dilutions are designated by letters (A, B, E, F etc.). The most widely used dilution is dilution B which is accomplished by adding 31 parts water to 1 part of syrup (concentrate).

    2F/2Fs post explains the two ways of getting to that working dilution (either making an intermediate 1 + 3 stock solution, and then further diluting the stock 1 + 7, or going straight from concentrate to working by adding 31 parts water to 1 part of syrup (concentrate)).

    As a near beginner, when you read the following it is probably best to stick with dilution B, and for now ignore the information about the other dilutions:

    http://www.kodak.com/global/en/profe...?pq-path=14033
    I have all the data sheets of the developers i already have, and i read them all but not the whole of the sheet [as i can't understand everything i read anyway].

    Well, i was thinking to take parts of the dev to dilute with water rather than dumping all the dev with water for that final volume, not sure what will be the difference but i think i prefer to use the dev diluted one by one, but i really can't understand about the correct measurements when diluting, the bottle is coming with net vol. of 757mL and it is to make 1 US Gallon [about 3.85L], if i dilute 1 part of that with 4 parts of water then i will not get full 1G, not even closer, so am i missing something?

  9. #9

    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Ajman - U.A.E.
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    958
    What i don't understand mostly is what is the difference between the stock solution and the concentrate?

  10. #10
    MattKing's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Delta, British Columbia, Canada
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    12,926
    Images
    60
    Quote Originally Posted by TareqPhoto View Post
    What i don't understand mostly is what is the difference between the stock solution and the concentrate?
    I'm assuming you are talking about HC-110.

    The concentrate is very concentrated, so you don't need very much of it to develop a single roll of film.

    The concentrate is also really thick, so it can be hard to accurately measure and use very small amounts of it.

    For that reason, traditionally the instructions recommended that you first dilute a workable quantity of the concentrate into a stock solution (1 +3 probably, but see note below), and then just before you develop the film, dilute that stock solution further (1 + 7) to create your working solution.

    You could dilute the entire bottle of the HC-110 into a single largish bottle of stock solution, but you probably don't want to, because while the concentrate will last a very, very, very long time, the stock solution will only last 1 to 3 months.

    So most people either:

    1) make a smaller amount of the stock solution up, and then try to use that smaller amount up before it goes bad; or
    2) use small syringes or other special tools to each time measure the small amount of concentrate required per roll and then dilute it directly to the working solution.

    As an example, say your tank requires 300 ml of working solution to develop a single roll of 135 film. For simplicity, I'll round that up to 320 ml.

    If you mix directly from concentrate to working solution, you will need to accurately measure and dispense 10 ml of concentrate and then add 310 ml of water to arrive at 320 ml of HC-110 dilution B working solution.

    Alternatively, if you decide to dilute the concentrate in stages (first to a stock solution, and then later to a working solution) you:
    a) first dilute a portion of the the concentrate to enough stock to fill a convenient sized bottle. If that bottle is, for example, 500 ml, you would make your (1 + 3) stock solution by putting 125 ml of concentrate in the 500 ml bottle and then adding 375 ml of water to fill it; then
    b) when it comes time to develop your film, for each roll of that 135 film, you just need to further dilute enough of that stock solution to 320 ml (in our example) of working solution. That is a 1 + 7 dilution - take 40 ml from the stock solution bottle and dilute it with 280 ml of water, for a total volume of 320 ml.

    NOTE: I need to warn you about one further thing. HC-110 comes in two different packagings. Most of us are familiar with the US packaging, and the examples and ratios referred to above and in the Kodak publication I linked to are based on that. There is, however, another European packaging and that HC-110 isn't as concentrated as the US packaging. As far as I am aware, the European packaging isn't labeled in a way that indicates it makes up a quantity of US gallons. You need to determine, however, which packaging you have before determining how much it is to be diluted.
    Matt

    “Photography is a complex and fluid medium, and its many factors are not applied in simple sequence. Rather, the process may be likened to the art of the juggler in keeping many balls in the air at one time!”

    Ansel Adams, from the introduction to The Negative - The New Ansel Adams Photography Series / Book 2

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast


 

APUG PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Contact Us  |  Support Us!  |  Advertise  |  Site Terms  |  Archive  —   Search  |  Mobile Device Access  |  RSS  |  Facebook  |  Linkedin