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  1. #11
    brucemuir's Avatar
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    Are "starting" times the same?

    This crap drives me bonkers.

  2. #12

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    In my experience the Adox Adonal is exactly the same as the recently available Rodinal. Foma R09 seems to be from the same factory but perhaps slightly more diluted. It is definitely not as strong as the Rodinal/Adonal. I notice on the bottle they suggest diluting it 1:40 whereas the Rodinal suggestion would be 1:50. If you can account for that difference then you should get comparable results.

  3. #13
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    I use mostly APH09, supposedly the old Rodinal formula from before 1940 and its perfect.
    Its pH for 1:50, 1:100, according to my notes is in the range 13 ~ 14...
    btw: the early version of APH09 had on the bottle 1:40, 1:80 as Michael mentioned. The last batches does not, if I remember correctly

  4. #14
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    Some years ago, I checked old, 1940 formula R09 (standard dilution 1+40) against Agfa Rodinal on APX 100. Same film, some scene, same light. I saw a tiny difference in negative density, nothing else.
    ---
    Uwe Pilz

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael W View Post
    In my experience the Adox Adonal is exactly the same as the recently available Rodinal. Foma R09 seems to be from the same factory but perhaps slightly more diluted. It is definitely not as strong as the Rodinal/Adonal. I notice on the bottle they suggest diluting it 1:40 whereas the Rodinal suggestion would be 1:50. If you can account for that difference then you should get comparable results.
    To make things more confusing: There is an old and a new Foma R09. The old one is similar to the old Rodinal/R09 and diluted 1+40 and the new is the same as the most recent Agfa Rodinal product and diluted 1+50. I think they made the change one or two years ago.

    Trond

  6. #16
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by georg16nik View Post
    I use mostly APH09, supposedly the old Rodinal formula from before 1940 and its perfect.
    Its pH for 1:50, 1:100, according to my notes is in the range 13 ~ 14...
    btw: the early version of APH09 had on the bottle 1:40, 1:80 as Michael mentioned. The last batches does not, if I remember correctly
    That pH is wrong, Calbe R09/APH09 has no free Hydroxide and when manufactured the concentrate is pH 11.8, that will reduce with dilution.


    Agfa Rodinal, now called Blazinal, Adonal etc is pH 14 because of the excess Hyrdoxide.

    Now the higher pH has no effects with most films, but a a few can suffer reticulation if you don't process carefully keeping temperatures close between all stages including washing.

    The excess hydroxide will soften some emulsions sufficiently to allow temperature deviations to cause micro (surface) reticulation which accentuates grain in prints/scans, or full reticulation. At it's mildest this is one reason some thnk Rodinal isn;t a very fine grained developer.

    Ian
    Last edited by Ian Grant; 08-11-2011 at 08:11 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  7. #17

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    Difference between R09 and Rodinal

    ADOX Adonal
    ROLLEI/Compard R09 One Shot
    are based on the original AGFA formula.

    Exclusively these two versions are identical with the latest version of AGFA at Vaihingen. Both showing in the fresh state a bright solution.

    Both can be ordered from Freestyle L.A.; Firstcall UK, as well from the producers

    www.fotoimpex.com Range: Adonal 500ml
    www.macodirect.de Range: R09 One Shot 125, 250, 300, 500, 1,200 + 5,000ml

  8. #18
    georg16nik's Avatar
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    red cap APH09 and the blue cap APH09 got potassium hydroxide in it.
    The .pdf from Adox site say so, as well http://www.adox.de/ADOX_APH_09(E).pdf
    I have measured above mentioned pH levels many times with proper equipment.

  9. #19
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by georg16nik View Post
    red cap APH09 and the blue cap APH09 got potassium hydroxide in it.
    The .pdf from Adox site say so, as well http://www.adox.de/ADOX_APH_09(E).pdf
    I have measured above mentioned pH levels many times with proper equipment.
    All versions of Rodinal contain Hydroxide, right from its introduction however most of it reacts with the metabisulphite to form Sulphite, and the Calbe version has no excess Hyrdoxide.

    Section 9 of the PDF you've linked to clearly states the pH of the APH09 concentrate is 11.8, unless you add more Hydroxide it can't go higher with dilution.

    Ian

  10. #20
    georg16nik's Avatar
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    They give 2.0 - 5.0% for potassium hydroxide, so 11.8 is approximate.
    Also, there is no way my water and Your water to be the same pH and mineral content.
    This spring, the water in the pipes moved from 6 pH to 10 pH. I am usually distilling water but sometimes I just use filtered tap water when I don't wanna wait for a few hours for the distiller to round up..

    G

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