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  1. #1

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    Rollei films: Ortho 25 vs ATO 2.1 25

    Hello.

    Anybody know what the differences are between these two Rollei films? They are both orthochromatic and super fine grain. So what is different besides ATO 2.1 having a fancier name ("Advanced Technical Orthographic")? The only thing I can find different in anything I see on the web is that ATO is described as "pure lith". But I've never quite understood specifically what that means. I take it to mean ATO 2.1 is higher contrast than Ortho 25, but what else if anything? I also thought lith films were inherently very grainy, but ATO 2.1 has the same "extremely fine grain" description as Ortho 25.

  2. #2

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    ROLLEI Ortho vs ROLLEI ATO2.1

    Rollei Ortho 25 is available for more than 20 years. As 35mm and 120 roll film coated on a glass-clear 100 micron synthetic film base. The gradation is that of a typical panchromatic film of comparable sensitivity. Perhaps a bit harder when it is processed in an typical fine-grain developer. Ideal is to use a gradation bending developer, as offered by ROLLEI. Name: ROLLEI RLC = Low contrast. They described the film also as a genre in the graphical application as "line film".
    The ROLLEI ATO2.1 is also available for more than 20 years, the former name was MACO GF = Genius Film. He was however, only as cutted sheet film available. For several years now, the ROLLEI ATO2.1 is also available as 35mm and 120 roll film. To my knowledge, such a thing has never happened before. Real lith film packed for photographers in cartridges and as 120 roll film. as 135, 120 and as cutted sheet film, coated on a glass-clear 100 micron synthetic film base. The gradation is that of a typical lith film is much steeper than of the ROLLEI Ortho 25 film. They called this type of film in the graphic usage as "lith film". Normally these are used as reproduction lith film for drawings and lettering. Then working with a document developer, such as the ROLLEI RHC = High Contrast = dilution 1:4, 5 minutes. Who would like to use this film for pictorial photography, for example, should use the ROLLEI RLC developer for gradation bending. In a German forum there is an interesting ROLLEI ATO2.1 thread. Link: http://www.aphog.de/forum/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=16586

  3. #3

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    Hello,
    The Rollei Ortho 25 is available on 135 and 120 since more than 20years!
    Now coated on a claer 100 micron sythetic filmbase.
    Also a cutted sheet film coated also on a claer filmbast 175 micron.
    The gradation is what you are expected from a typicale panchromatic film with compareable sensitive.
    A little harder when he ist developed with a fine-grain compansation developer.
    Perfect for developing the Rollei Orth25 is the usage of a developer
    like the Rollei Low-Contrast (RLC) because of his possibility for
    tameing the gradation.
    These sort of films like the Rollei Ortho25 are called in the graphic business as "line-films".

    Rollei ATO 2.1. is also available since 20 years.
    Former under the Label: MACO GF. (Genius Film).
    In the past the ATO 2.1. was only as cutted sheet-film in stock.
    Since serveral years the ATO 2.1. is also still available as 135 and 120s.
    As I know in the past there was no offer like that:

    A true lithfilm sorted for photographs in cartridges and rollfilms.
    As 135;120s and as cutted sheet film an a clear 100 micron filmbase.
    The gradation-curve is what you are awaitung from a typical lithfilm but she is much steeper
    in compansation with the ORTHO 25.
    "Lith-Film" as people from the graphic business are calling these type of film.
    Normaly "lith-films" are in use for reproduction of drawings or
    writings. Therefore a Document-developer like the Rollei RHC
    is suitable. Hig-Contrast_ Dil. 1 and 4 , for 5 minutes.
    If you want to use the Rollei ATO 2.1. for picture-photography
    it is recommandet to use the Rollei RLC-Developer because he is bending the gradation-curve.
    Also Informations about these two films ,you will find in the german
    "APHOG"-Forum.
    http://www.aphog.de

    Nice greetings
    Walter

  4. #4

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    Thank you very much for the response.

    Does ATO 2.1 have grain as fine as Ortho 25?

    Michael

  5. #5
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    The ATO is Rollei's version (better too, BTW) for the now defunct Kodak Technical Pan, and came out only 2 years ago (not 20).
    Rollei Ortho 25 is a finer grained film than Rollei 25 (meant to replace the APX 25). You won't need as much light as you'll think you will, and the results will amaze you.

    In fact, it's what's in my 35 now, with the Rollei 400s in one of the 120s. The Rolleiortho 25 is a true "fine art" film, and won't disappoint.
    If the lens doesn't read "ZEISS", then it just isn't.

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    Are you thinking of ATP rather than ATO? ATO is an orthochromatic film. But since it's described as "lith", I'm wondering if it is as fine grained as regular Rollei Ortho 25. What I'm hoping is that the only difference is that ATO has higher contrast than Ortho 25.

  7. #7
    Rolleijoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael R 1974 View Post
    Are you thinking of ATP rather than ATO? ATO is an orthochromatic film. But since it's described as "lith", I'm wondering if it is as fine grained as regular Rollei Ortho 25. What I'm hoping is that the only difference is that ATO has higher contrast than Ortho 25.
    Yes, you're right. My mistake. I have some 4x5 ATO bur haven't shot it yet. My guess would be it would have indeed have more contrast than Rollei Ortho 25.
    If the lens doesn't read "ZEISS", then it just isn't.

  8. #8

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    Hello everyone,
    here some further informations about these 2 films, which might be usefull for you to know:
    The grain of each of the two emulsions are very fine.
    BUT it depends on the filmdeveloper you use for this 2 types!
    The Filmdeveloper Rollei-RLC works very finer then the Documentdeveloper
    Rollei RHC.
    Hope the infos are usefull for You !
    Walter

  9. #9

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    Thanks. Well I ordered some Ortho 25 and ATO, and will try them both. I guess that's the best way to find out how they work.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael R 1974 View Post
    Thank you very much for the response.

    Does ATO 2.1 have grain as fine as Ortho 25?

    Michael
    Michael,

    what is your main intention?
    Do you need an orthochromatic emulsion?
    Or do you want a very fine grained, sharp and high resolving film?

    Rollei Ortho 25 and ATO are both fine grained and very sharp.
    But Agfa Copex Rapid and Rollei ATP have both finer grain, better edge sharpness and much higher resolution. And much better tonality.

    Speed for Ortho 25 in RLC developer is about ISO 16.
    But the shape of the chacteristic curve is a problem, because it's a strong s-shape curve.
    Same with ATO in this developer. This film has one stop less speed and has even more contrast.

    If orthochromatic sensitisation is not so important, and if you can live with a normal panchromatic film, then I highly recommend Agfa Copex Rapid in combination with the dedicated SPUR Modular UR New developer (with Part A1 and B).
    With this combination you get
    - real ISO 40
    - ideal characteristic curve with excellent shadow detail and highlight tone separation
    - wonderful tonality
    - very fine grain: 16x20" prints from 35mm film are no problem at all
    - prints from 35mm Agfa Copex Rapid surpass APX 100, Plus-X, Fomapan 100 and FP4+ in 120 4,5x6 and 6x6; you get medium format quality with 35mm film
    - outstanding resolution
    - excellent sharpness.

    Important is the Spur developer. This film doesn't work good with Pota and similar developers.

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