I've shot multiple rolls of B&W and colour in this pinhole camera and have never seen those spots before. I have also re-shot in the same environment where I had this problem and the spots are not present on that roll. I'd say it's a developer problem.
Originally Posted by Monito
I am familiar with solar flare in pinhole photography when shooting into the light. It looks a bit like lens flare but that's not what is happening on the roll of film in question.
Well, please follow up and let us know the resolution of this mystery when you get it. You got my curiosity going.
We see this very problem with PAN-f regularly and have brought it to ILFORDS attention on several occasions, to '0' reply. This problem can occur with all the ILFORD films but is most seen in the PAN-f. Because dr5 is enhancing 4~5x the negative counterpart, issues such as this are seen more clearly, but can be seen very well in film that is severely damaged, neg or dr5.
What we have determined is, that this is a storage or moisture issue. It mostly happens with the 120 film and we think the spots are paper related. Spotting can happen with 35 as well but they look different. If an un-sealed roll is put back into a cold-store, shot, fresh or old-film, the moisture will cause this spotting. PAN-f is the most susceptible to the problem. In most cases when a client of ours has this problem, this scenario occurred. This is what happened to your PAN-f.
We have been willing to give ILFORD our feedback over the years, good, bad and constructive, but they do not give dr5 the time of day.
regards - dr5
Firstly, I apologise if you have not been contacted, I have always read your posts and can clearly understand that you are very knowledgeable and very passionate about monochrome, so we share that outlook, I can assure you the next time I am in the USA I will visit with you.
As to 'black spot' I am sure you can imagine I was concerned at your assumptions. This morning I have spoken to our QC department and obtained the worldwide statistics relating to PAN F + ( 35mm and 120 )
We have received :
2011 Year to date 1 Complaint
2010 1 Complaint
2009 4 Complaints
2008 2 Complaints
So in the last 3 years and 8 months of sales worldwide you can see that we have had 8 complaints :
Of those 8 complaints 5 Were Justified
1 Cause not certain
2 Not justified
I cannot therefore, respectfully agree that PAN F + has a problem. As to this customers issue he is returning a sample to us and once it is examined under the electron microscope by our QC team we will give him ( as we give all our customers ) an official reply.
'Black Spot' as I am sure you realise is a problem sometimes seen in 'home processing' due to suspended particulates in the developer, either from the mixing water or from undissolved or 'foreign' particulates in the actual raw chemicals, it tends to be much more common when powder developers are used.
Finally, your assumption that it could be caused by moisture actually on the film or on the backing strip I cannot really comment on other than :
1) Film that is cool strored or frozen must be protected from moisture.
2) Once film is exposed it should be processed quickly and not put back into cold store ( unless in exceptional circumstances and again protected from moisture ).
3) If moisture was introduced to a film ( or via the backing paper onto 120 film ) I would not expect to see 'black spot' or pinpricks I would expect to see a fairly 'random' mottle effect after development that I cannot see would would induce multiple pinpricks in the emulsion.
Simon ILFORD photo / HARMAN technology Limited :
I'm clipping a frame and posting to Simon at Ilford tomorrow. In regards to moisture, cold storage etc, the details with this film are that I bought it from B&H and it hasn't been in the fridge before or after exposure. It was exposed in a wooden pinhole camera over about 5 days and some of those days had extremely heavy rain in Sydney. The camera never got wet but the humidity would have been pretty high. I processed the film within a day or so of finishing the roll. Didn't notice the spots for a couple of days and by then the backing paper had gone in the rubbish so I had no chance to inspect that. I appreciate Simon's assistance with this and will wait to hear something in due course.
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We are not here to bash ILFORD. ..just in reply to a problem that has never been addressed, be it condition or the film it self.
We process much of this film, in dr5 and in it's native neg form. The ILFORD films perform best in dr5 in my opinion, but that's just me. Likely many of our clients would agree.
The below links were memorable. a very high-end client with many rolls of PAN-f, ALL ruined because of this spotting. Along with his rolls were several other-clients rolls of PAN-f with no spotting. This condition was new to us at the time [years ago], and we pulled our hair out trying to figure out if it was the process causing it, or the film. ILFORD was of no help simply because they do not acknowledge dr5 as viable. We assumed they just blamed the processing. In the end, our client saw that it was the film and stopped using the film-type, especially when he-himself could not get a reply from ILFORD.
When we fired up our neg-line, this condition was also there from time to time.
If ILFORD helps you with this problem I would be interested in seeing what they have to say. In 10+ years they have not addressed this issue for us, and we are a lab that processes 1000s of rolls of ILFORD films a year. HP5 actually is our highest volume film. [note - the link-files are big. #2 shows the spots]
best regards - dr5
Last edited by dr5chrome; 08-17-2011 at 02:58 PM. Click to view previous post history.
So, after 5 pages and 6 months, was the case resolved?
It took awhile; I sent the film to Ilford & eventually they sent it back to me and said they couldn't explain the spots. They also sent some fresh rolls of Pan F 120 and I've exposed and processed a few in Rodinal with no problems. This is 2014 expiry. Recently I processed one of the older 2013 rolls in Xtol and had the same spots. I have one sealed roll from this batch and I'm planning to post that to Ilford. i wonder if I'm the only one who's had this problem?
Have you tried exposing a roll in a regular camera to see if the spots are still there? Or develope a roll in other developer to see if the spots are still there? Just curious. I have 200 ft of bulk 35mm that I have to use and am interested in the outcome.
Originally Posted by Michael W
Recently I've found Pan F 120 with exp Jan, 2013, I forgot had it in my fridge, so remembered this thread and decided to check in before I develop the film.
I was thinking about Rodinal but I might settle to Tetenal Neofin Blue or Ultrafine.
btw: mine is 64CPY7X01/02/JAN 2013, so if it turns out we are having from the same batch, I can send an unopened one to Ilford to compare