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  1. #31
    ic-racer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by desertrat View Post
    I think in this case adding hydroquinone to the list was a typographical error,
    No, hydroquinone 4% cream is a prescription drug.

  2. #32
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    Hydroqinone is subject to some transport bans and that's NOT due to a TYPO, it might be mis-guied but thats another issue.

    Ian

  3. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Grant View Post
    Hydroqinone is subject to some transport bans and that's NOT due to a TYPO, it might be mis-guied but thats another issue.
    Yeah, but the DEA list found by desertrat was a list of drugs similar to opium: "morphine, codeine, heroin, methadone, hydroquinone, fentanyl, and oxycodone." I think it's safe to say hydroquinone is a typo in that list!

    There may be transport issues, but this wasn't a transport issue, it was a "must fill out DEA paperwork to purchase" situation. I'm not sure if there's a single unified "all substances that require a DEA form" list, but as desertrat already noted, the usual suspects---DEA Lists I and II and their "special concern" precursors list---don't contain it, and there doesn't seem to be any clear reason why they should.

    I found one suggestion that catechols generally can be used to make safrole, which is a List I precursor---I gather it's used for various M-drugs---but the catechols themselves don't seem to be on any of the lists. There are copies at Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DEA_list_of_chemicals

    -NT
    Nathan Tenny
    San Diego, CA, USA

    The lady of the house has to be a pretty swell sort of person to put up with the annoyance of a photographer.
    -The Little Technical Library, _Developing, Printing, And Enlarging_

  4. #34

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    It's not just known narcotics etc which are the issue. It is any chemical used in the home brew of illegal
    substances. For example, ordinary sulfuric acid might need to be listed. Of course, this might require hazmat shpg due to its corrosive nature, but what the DEA if concerned with is its use in drug labs, and
    how druggies tend to spread small purchases of such things over a wide number of suppliers to avoid
    suspicion. Look at cold pills and meth, or diesel oil and fertilizer by bomb-makers. Just be glad that someone is looking out for you, or trying to. Some of those heavy metals have turned up as deadly additives in things like "ecstasy". I don't know about hydroquinone per se, but it very well could be used
    in some shady process, though its something I've never personally been asked to sign for.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by DREW WILEY View Post
    Just be glad that someone is looking out for you, or trying to.
    not to start anything but wth

    LOL

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by brucemuir View Post
    not to start anything but wth

    LOL
    You said it. 10 grillion dollars spent on trying to stop people from doing what they want to do with the result of creating a massive criminal underground with attendant crime that can then be blamed on the drugs rather than the prohibition thus justifying a budget increase of another few grillion dollars while stopping absolutely no one who wants to use drugs from doing so anyway. The inmates are in charge of the asylum.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by ntenny View Post
    Yeah, but the DEA list found by desertrat was a list of drugs similar to opium: "morphine, codeine, heroin, methadone, hydroquinone, fentanyl, and oxycodone." I think it's safe to say hydroquinone is a typo in that list!

    There may be transport issues, but this wasn't a transport issue, it was a "must fill out DEA paperwork to purchase" situation. I'm not sure if there's a single unified "all substances that require a DEA form" list, but as desertrat already noted, the usual suspects---DEA Lists I and II and their "special concern" precursors list---don't contain it, and there doesn't seem to be any clear reason why they should.

    I found one suggestion that catechols generally can be used to make safrole, which is a List I precursor---I gather it's used for various M-drugs---but the catechols themselves don't seem to be on any of the lists. There are copies at Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DEA_list_of_chemicals

    -NT
    I've been doing some research on this. The DEA requires sales of certain chems to be reported. Any quantity of a list I chemical must be reported, and large or suspicious orders of list II chemicals must be reported. The rules for the other watched chemicals are probably the same as for list II chemicals. The quantity thresholds for list II chemicals are listed in guidelines. Also, any quantity of a list II chemical should be reported if the buyer is acting 'suspiciously'.

    The DEA does not have a specified form for reporting these sales as far as I know. Any forms are the creation of the vendor, and they can be as the vendor sees fit. The DEA only requires that records be kept and suspicious sales reported, as far as I know. This is why some vendors require forms and/or picture ID for the sales of certain chemicals, and others simply record the sales and alert the DEA to a suspicious sale.

    Since hydroquinone only appeared (as a typo) on an informational handout for opium and its relatives, and did not appear on the lists of watched chemicals, this may not become a big deal. Only time will tell. In the meantime, I ordered some more hydroquinone just in case it becomes hard to get for a while. In the unlikely event it becomes unavailable, the are plenty of other reducing agents. Also, I think prepackaged developers with all the ingredients won't be affected. If the worst happened, paper can be developed by Rodinal somewhat more concentrated than for film. It can be developed by PC mixtures. It can be developed by some film developers with a big helping of sodium carbonate added. There are lots of alternatives.
    Last edited by desertrat; 09-19-2011 at 10:21 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    Happiness is a load of bulk chemicals, a handful of recipes, a brick of film and a box of paper. - desertrat

  8. #38

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    If (*if*) hydroquinone is on a watchlist as a precursor, it apparently would have to be because it can be used to produce safrole (which in turn is used to produce MDMA---does anyone really synthesize MDMA in the States? I thought it was all imported from Israel). It seems like that wouldn't make a lot of sense; there are lots of other things that can be used to produce safrole (the whole catechol family, sassafras bark, something called benzodioxole, and who knows what else) and hydroquinone seems like a weird one to pick on. Though the DEA may have just gotten a wild hair about a particular random second-order precursor, my money is still on it being a mistake.

    There are, of course, lots of alternatives if hydroquinone becomes difficult to get. Paper developers using alternatives to hydroquinone seem to be scarcer than film ones, but I don't know if this is for fundamental reasons or just because that's where the experiments happen to have been done.

    -NT
    Nathan Tenny
    San Diego, CA, USA

    The lady of the house has to be a pretty swell sort of person to put up with the annoyance of a photographer.
    -The Little Technical Library, _Developing, Printing, And Enlarging_

  9. #39

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    Well, I know the inside story rather well. Basically, DEA, Homeland Security, and the FBI are now all interlinked in terms of compliance and data, licensing, and controlled substance monitoring. It's part of the bigger picture. And there are valid reasons for the specifics if you have some valid connection to pharmacology. But in this case, I'd bet that hydroquinone getting listed is simply a fluke. I've made several puchases of it recently and never had an issue. And I've never been asked for a photo ID by any
    supplier. We're not talking about morphine here but just the statistical possibility of a rogue shopper.
    I think the folks at Formulary are pretty bright and would get suspicious of any strange request. Prior
    to that I got chem locally at Bryant, where the owners were pHD's and got the bulk of the business from
    hospitals and biotech research... photo chem was a sideline. They were wonderful folks and would chat,
    and you'd be amazed at what some chemicals are used in. Something as innocuous as sodium sulfite,
    which is used on fastfood salads everywhere, will kill people allergic to it. What if it turns up unlisted in
    something random? Just an example. And many people are allegric to sulfite. But there are reasons for rules.

  10. #40
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    I doubt if Saffrole could be made from HQ due to the fact that the two oxygens in Safrrole ar Ortho, but in HQ they are Para! Tough to get around that. As for Sassafras, I have been drinking Sassafras tea and chewing the leaf for years, and I love Basil. So far my liver is OK! We have a Sassafras tree in the front yard and it is putting out saplings everywhere. They make a good source of cuttings.

    Oh, I also love Root Beer, even the "home made" variety.

    PE



 

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