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  1. #11
    Poisson Du Jour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    Well, I should add here that pH is a meaningless term when you are speaking of water free or low water environments so comments about the pH of antifreeze are meaningless.

    Here are some other things to remember:

    1. Both Propylene Glycol and Ethylene Glycol taste sweet. (no, I have never tasted them on purpose)

    [...]

    PE

    Strange. EG (and it comes in any colour from green to straw to blue to cherry here in Australia) is designed to be extremely bitter (to discourage tasting/swallowing it!). Most also damage paintwork, plastics and cutaneous ulceration: not the sort of stuff I'd put in a darkroom.... BTW, EG is never, ever used alone in modern radiators: either pre-mixed with distilled water or bought already mixed.
    .::Gary Rowan Higgins

    A comfort zone is a wonderful place. But nothing ever grows there.
    —Anon.






  2. #12
    Murray Kelly's Avatar
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    No, Dave, what you want is the waterless one. The stuff I bought is labelled something like 1076g/litre ethylene glycol. I just decided the lurid one was sticking my neck out too far for nasties I didn't want. As it is there is still a goodly risk of strange chemicals in there.

    To make the developer concentrate with water in it would start the degradation from day 1. Stick to the concentrate and don't use the premix.

    Jerry I have to let you in on an army joke. On exercise here the visiting US soldiers are warned by the diggers to be careful walking under thick bush or a drop bear may suddenly get them. For the first few days they walk around looking up.

    Brisbane is on almost exactly the same latitude (south) as Miami but it's way too cold for the crocs to breed or even live here. Even on the tropic it's questionable whether they swam or gruyere.

    I don't know of any soap makers locally altho I'm sure they exist somewhere. All I ever read on the 'net is how good the home made soap is because it doesn't have TEA or nasty chemicals in it. Apart from caustic soda, that is. I am informed by a Melbourne inhabitant that he got his P glycol from a refrigeration outfit quite cheaply if he supplied his own 5L can, which he did. I tried that unsuccessfully, and went for the lab grade after carefully checking it wasn't adulterated with water like the TEA. Any developers I made up with the eth glycol are still OK. Pretty blue, too. Easy to tell if they're going 'off'.

    So, there you have it, Dave; you pays yer money and you takes yer chances.

    Good luck.

    Murray

  3. #13
    Murray Kelly's Avatar
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    Just remembered that I didn't answer your question about TEA and the metol base, Dave.

    My experience was that any water makes it oxidise quickly and can't think of any way around that even tho it is a recommended way to make Pyrocat-MC. The second time I used it the film came out almost clear. The developer was dark already.

    Murray

    quote
    and about TEA, i just realized you need TEA to make the metol base for pyrocat MC, any way to get around that?
    unquote.

  4. #14
    daveandiputra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murray Kelly View Post
    Just remembered that I didn't answer your question about TEA and the metol base, Dave.

    My experience was that any water makes it oxidise quickly and can't think of any way around that even tho it is a recommended way to make Pyrocat-MC. The second time I used it the film came out almost clear. The developer was dark already.

    Murray

    quote
    and about TEA, i just realized you need TEA to make the metol base for pyrocat MC, any way to get around that?
    unquote.
    so in effect if i can't get TEA, i can just forget about the glycol there's no way i can get the metol to dissolve in glycol right?

    so it looks like pyrocat M is the way to go.

  5. #15
    Murray Kelly's Avatar
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    I didn't mean to put you off, merely to tell you of my own experience. There's probably thousands of users out there using Pat Gainer's method to dissolve the metol. Perhaps I used too much water? Who can tell?

    You would have to go back to that thread and check that the TEA method was the only way to do it. I cannot recall if that was the only way.

  6. #16

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    dave if u live in Jakarta you can get TEA n P glycol at harum kimia rawamangun, it's about under 50k rupiah/L
    quiet-light.blogspot.com

  7. #17
    daveandiputra's Avatar
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    Hi Mas haryanto, when I ask for it at harum kimia senen they say it's not available I'll try rawamangun.

    So it's settled, I'll just wait for the catechol to arrive. Thanks for all the help Murray, Mas haryanto, Jerry, PE, and Gary

  8. #18

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    You can find a lot of chemistry store that sell P Glycol, or u can pm me ur phone number, I still have a few L

    u r welcome dave
    quiet-light.blogspot.com

  9. #19
    bsdunek's Avatar
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    Here in the U.S.A., propylene glycol is available as “RV Antifreeze”. This is used to winterize your travel trailer or motorhome to prevent the pipes from freezing. You may be able to find it in Oz. I don't know what addives are in it, but I'm sure less than automotive anti-freeze.
    Bruce

    Moma don't take my Kodachrome away!
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  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by bsdunek View Post
    Here in the U.S.A., propylene glycol is available as “RV Antifreeze”. This is used to winterize your travel trailer or motorhome to prevent the pipes from freezing. You may be able to find it in Oz. I don't know what addives are in it, but I'm sure less than automotive anti-freeze.
    Generally I think you're right. But I was just looking at the label for Peak RV antifreeze today (winterizing the boat) and it listed some "glycol" chemicals then said "OR propylene glycol". I was under the impression that all RV antifreeze was propylene glycol based - but maybe not. The label went on to say that the solution was "generally regarded as safe".

    Propylene Glycol is also used to treat Ketosis in cows (don't ask me what Ketosis is - I just read the label). So that might be a source anywhere there's a farm supply store. I think it may have less other stuff in it than the RV antifreeze, but will be more expensive.
    "Far more critical than what we know or do not know is what we do not want to know." - Eric Hoffer

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