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  1. #161

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    Good Ron, what I'm after is not stealing you thunder, nor infringing on any commercial interests (no market - absolutely zero! around these parts), but some solid info, so when you mention you have developers out there selling, why put your light under a shade, give us the name, it is nothing to be ashamed of, on the contrary.

    Also when discussing actual recipes, I feel it is in the spirit of the internet to offer real advice, not hints.

    Its akin to "try metol instead of pyrocatechine, it will give you better results in IMHO" - this is not like if you are giving out any life inheritance......

    Also those new solutions : are they compatible with chemicals available on the open market? If that is the case it might be of some interest to amateurs like us, but what we really need is stuff we can buy at the mall, paintshop or auto and hardware store, unless that it can safely be forgotten.....

    Or are you actually planning to bring out a NEW developer in todays business climate? With all the capital costs involved in such a venture, your banker will probably land in jail....
    Last edited by analog what is that?; 12-23-2011 at 10:22 PM. Click to view previous post history. Reason: typos!

  2. #162
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    AWIT;

    There is a whole thread on this developer with examples. I don't intend to belabor the issue on that as I fully discussed the chemistry involved. It is known well enough. And, I have already given substantial information here such as saying that there are better Phenidone developing agents than Phenidone itself due to hydroxide instability.

    One of the posters listed ALL of the methods I used but one and IDK how he missed one important possible compound. Oh well, I am not gong to give details. I used to have a professor that was like me. He would give hints and say that the answers were in the textbook and these references! I learned a lot from his class! I want you guys to learn, not have it handed to you on a platter.

    Which do you want? You will get results quicker one way, but you will learn more the other way.

    PE

  3. #163

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    Oh well I'll bow out of this Matt, and go back to having fun with & fine-tuning Twinningole(s) & Liptonole(s) and publish full recipes on blogs and elsewhere, have to take you seriously when you start rattling sabers............. happy holydays!

  4. #164

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    One last thing: It is common courtesy, when there is a thread adressing the subject at hand to give the actual link right here, or ask if anyone remembers / has it, in case it slipped the mind, so that people get to know where to start looking, anythingg else can be seen as footdragging, disinformation and stall tactics - to actually discourage unsuspecting newbies from ever trying out anything for themselves.

    Thank you.

  5. #165
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    AWIT;

    I have been asked to disassociate myself from my developer and any thread regarding Ryuji's products as they are in direct competition. As this fact seems to have escaped you, as has the existence of my process chemistry and my credentials, I'll just let this sleeping dog lie as is.

    As for keeping references, I keep none anyhow. As you can easily see from my post count, I simply cannot keep track of them, especially with my schedule regarding the book and the DVDs. If you don't follow those comments, then sorry again. So, there you are stuck with a number of non-sequiturs from your POV I guess. Basically, you have walked into the middle of a long standing discussion on a very complex discussion and have been at a loss all along as to what is going on. It is one that stretches out over 3 or more years on this same topic with Pat Gainer, Kirk Keyes, myself, Ryuji and many many others. And no one has done any homework.

    PE

  6. #166

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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    Very nice. Congratulations.
    Look up Boric Acid in Wikipedia. That may give some help.
    PE
    And it says that it dissolves in boiling water. As you said in a recent posting, folks learn better when they dig up facts for themselves.

    More news:

    I went ahead and mixed my formula (http://www.apug.org/forums/viewpost.php?p=1275474) into PG, keeping the sulfite separate. The following numbers are for 200 ml working solution. When heated, it all dissolved easily in 16 ml (total volume) of concentrate. I ended up with 19 ml after adding the 1% phenidone solution. There was no precipitation upon cooling, even when cooled down to refrigerator-temperature. Obviously, viscosity went up, but viscosity was reasonable at room-temp. 15.4 ml would probably be fine, and that represents a dilution of 1+12. To make one-liter, you'd have 77ml of concentrate for 1+12. I think that's reasonable.

    The pH of the resultant working solution was correct, yet the test-strip was a little thin. I can speculate on a few possible causes:
    1. I damaged the developer when heating.
    2. Having those large PG molecules in the way hinders development (think "obstacles").
    3. The PG is forming esters with the borates, changing their behavior (Jerry suggested this).

    Comments from the chemists are eagerly awaited!
    Also, the boric acid is there to form a buffer-system with the metaborate. Would this buffer be effective if those molecules have formed esters with the PG? If not, omitting the boric acid and reducing the metaborate would permit a greater concentration.

    BTW, I want to thank those who've posted helpful suggestions in this thread, especially Ron (PE) and Jerry. You guys are a lifesaver! There's no way I could have gotten to this point so quickly (or at all?) without your help.

    Mark Overton

  7. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by analog what is that? View Post
    One last thing: It is common courtesy, when there is a thread adressing the subject at hand to give the actual link right here, or ask if anyone remembers / has it, in case it slipped the mind, so that people get to know where to start looking, anythingg else can be seen as footdragging, disinformation and stall tactics - to actually discourage unsuspecting newbies from ever trying out anything for themselves.

    Thank you.
    There is also a button with the label "advanced search", it does wonders.
    - Ian

  8. #168

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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    One of the posters listed ALL of the methods I used but one and IDK how he missed one important possible compound
    Oops, looks like I better re-read those patents...

    Mark Overton

  9. #169
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    Mark;

    You are closing in. Boric Acid reacts with many Polyols to form rubbery compounds that may or may not help this situation. I do NOT recommend the use of Phenidone. I've said this 3 times (IIRC) in this thread. Try Dimezone or Dimezone @! Phenidone decomposes upon heating in base!

    I could go on, but congratulations. AWIT does not agree with you about learning.

    Please re-read Edens and Mowrey. Lots of antioxidants in there!

    Best wishes on a nice step forward.

    PE

  10. #170

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    Quote Originally Posted by albada View Post
    Two questions for Ryuji about DS-10 (I hope he's still watching this long thread):

    1. Could the Dimezone and Ascorbic acid be kept in a separate concentrate in propylene glycol? I would hope that both concentrate and working solution (containing no developers) would last at least a year. Before using, some concentrate would be added to working solution for one-shot use.

    2. If the answer to question 1 is "yes", then are TEA and Salicylic acid still needed? Your older posts indicate they are used to chelate iron to protect the developers to improve storage-life. Does the TEA affect image-quality?
    1. Yes. But if you do that, why donít you just use dry ascorbic acid? That just solves the ultimate problem so that you can focus on shooting.

    2. Yes. You canít just change on ingredient without affecting some other roles in the developer. If you try to remove or replace one thing, it would generally have to be balanced out by changing something else.



 

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