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  1. #221

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Johnson View Post
    The formula type is new to APUG as far as I know.
    But it is unbuffered, see posts #25 and #26 in this thread.
    It may oxidize to the more acidic(I think) dehydroascorbate and fall in pH.
    But one would have to do a long term comparative test with Xtol, both in contact with air,to see.
    Think about it from the other side. Why didn't Kodak sell this simplified formula rather than XTOL? It'd certainly be cheaper to manufacture. The answer is that it would be a quality control nightmare and customer service disaster.

  2. #222

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryuji View Post
    Think about it from the other side. Why didn't Kodak sell this simplified formula rather than XTOL? It'd certainly be cheaper to manufacture. The answer is that it would be a quality control nightmare and customer service disaster.
    What film developing times do you suggest to start with DS-10 and your DS-12 developers Ryuji?
    I don't fancy wading through 23 pages of a long thread today to find out.

  3. #223

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    Or to put it differently: do you have a web-site or some PDF-files to download on your DS-10 and DS-12, with recdipes and recommended times?
    Some of the chatter doesn't exactly offer enlightenment, and yes I'm partly to blame! :-)

  4. #224

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    Quote Originally Posted by analog what is that? View Post
    Or to put it differently: do you have a web-site or some PDF-files to download on your DS-10 and DS-12, with recdipes and recommended times? Some of the chatter doesn't exactly offer enlightenment, and yes I'm partly to blame! :-)
    Part of the answer is on the digitaltruth website:
    These give you the formulas. Unfortunately, each formula has only one suggested starting-time. In addition, DS-10 has a couple of entries in the massive dev-chart here.

    Mark Overton

  5. #225

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    There is the original page archived: http://web.archive.org/web/200910051...ecommendations

  6. #226

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    I should have wrote that I would be interested in the times for Ilford HP5 Plus with both the stock-strength developer and the 1+1 dilution.

  7. #227
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    Mark;

    It would help if you scanned in the two samples (XTOL vs your developer) to give a visual example for all of us. It might also help if you tested a few other films with the developer to show its generality to emulsions. It would also give others a feel for the correct development times.

    PE

  8. #228

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    Well, who knows? Maybe kodak Did start with such a simple formula and then thru the process of fixing the challenges and Wah-Lah, XTOL.

  9. #229

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    Guys, sorry I had to take the silvergrain labs site down. The software platform was complicated and too costly to maintain, plus I make living shooting photography not maintaining websites or sharing information. If there's demand maybe I could make an e-book or something... but seriously I need interns to do that.

    Regarding DS-12, this formula has not been in use for some time. However, I've devised a formula that perhaps could be described as roughly halfway between DS-10 and 12, or perhaps better way to say it might be an ascorbate version of Microphen/DD-X. This film developer gives grainless and sharp image with 35mm TMX or Acros in 20x24 enlargement (and gives at least box speed at normal contrast). This was once prepared as liquid concentrate. I actually had many bottles of this developer, manufactured and packaged in my previous lab space in Downtown Boston, and ready to ship out as commercial samples... but now I'm reformulating it in all powder form. I'm actually eager to test it with 400TMY-2. I actually never shot 400TMY-2, but that seems to be one obvious thing to try, since what I want to do with film now requires best IQ and speed.

    But please be patient. I'm not interested in spending all day discussing trivial matters on chemistry. I'm interested in creating images and furnishing myself with necessary technology. When this developer in question is prepared, tested in my new studio, you'll hear from me somehow.

  10. #230

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    At PE's suggestion, I scanned the test-strips for XTOL (6.5 min at 20C for TMY), and for the concentrate shown below, which was posted earlier in this thread here:

    Quote Originally Posted by albada View Post
    Propylene glycol ................. 39 ml
    Ascorbic acid ..................... 10.7 g
    Sodium metaborate ............. 6.5 g
    Phenidone .......................... 0.15
    Propylene glycol to ............. 50 ml (you should only need to add about 1 ml)
    This should be diluted 1+19, making 1 liter of working solution. My dev-time was 7.5 min at 20C for TMY.

    Here is the XTOL scan:
    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	43614 And a crop: Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	43615

    And here is the scan of the above formula:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	3-18-Concen1stLoRes.jpg 
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ID:	43616 And a crop: Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	43617

    These images are darkish because I set the white-point as high as possible in the scanner, to clip as little data to white as possible (i.e., maximize the dynamic range). The black-point was set to the left side of the histogram (which was always the same). Gamma was 1.5.
    This is part of my camera-collection, lit by the overhead tungsten candelabra. It's hard lighting, which creates plenty of specular reflections to see how the dense part of negatives are doing. Unfortunately, my Coolscan IV ED scanner doesn't have enough dynamic range to cover such specular reflections well (and still show shadow-detail in the neg's), so many reflections clip to white.

    In the crops above, my formula appears to have less grain than XTOL. That's not true. In 22X loupes, they seem to have the same grain. The scanner's focus has a little variation, and the film isn't held perfectly flat, so grain is defocussed by unpredictable amounts. To get sharp images of grain, I want to photograph negatives in a microscope.

    Mark Overton



 

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