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  1. #151

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    Quote Originally Posted by rich815 View Post
    When I lived and worked in China for a while back in the late 90's there were factories that made identical products that were then either for export to the EU and USA by one foreign-owned company and also for direct sale domestically by a Chinese-owned company. The former had a line after production with inspectors for QC and a good percentage was rejected. For the latter whatever came off the line was sent out for sale, no QC inspection. I wonder if this kind of thing might also exist for Kentmere (or other UK-made film in same factory) vs Ilford,...
    I very much doubt that Harman would purposely send out duff products.

    kevs
    testing...

  2. #152
    Richard Sintchak (rich815)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevs View Post
    I very much doubt that Harman would purposely send out duff products.

    kevs
    I did not say they would. But what one calls an "acceptable" quality control varies.
    -----------------------

    "Well, my photos are actually much better than they look..."

    Richard S.
    Albany, CA (San Francisco bay area)

    My Flickr River of photographs
    http://flickriver.com/photos/rich815...r-interesting/

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  3. #153
    StoneNYC's Avatar
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    Yes but 2 boxes of tri-x and two boxes of BW400CN film and ONE roll of c-41 color and one amateur pro pack (4 instead of 5) C-41 probably get bought about once every 6 months to a year, no one is buying those... people like us actually buy the freestyle stuff haha (actually I don't because I prefer Ilford for most films and they don't sell to freestyle anymore).

    Also I don't consider any of those films to be "premium" films, they are all the consumer market films, regular "all purpose" C-41, 400tx which many pro's use, but isn't a pro film, and I'll give you that "kodak professional" BW400CN says the words 'professional' on it, but isn't used by any professionals I know... I've rarely seen it now and then here on APUG posted in the gallery, but most pro's use true B&W films and is oriented for consumers now since they can get that B&W look and still have it processed at the local drug store.

    I recognize that film companies need to make a profit, and I hate to lose a film (like Fuji Provia or Velvia or Neopan400) over lost sales, but they also can't expect us to pay STUPID expensive prices either and sell a lot of film. It would also help us to understand why prices for films aren't consistent, we fall in love with a film, Acros100 for example, shoot it on 35mm, then 120, then we go to use 4x5 and it's twice the price of everything else in the same family, it makes no sense, at least none that we can think of. Is the price from 120 deferred to 4x5 in a market they assume can handle the difference? keeping costs down on the 120 versions? or is there some extreme extra waste associated with producing it in 4x5 that bumps up the cost to double? This pushes us away from a product and onto another different one, and it's easier to be consistent and shoot the same film, so then we might just switch altogether for ease of processing and shooting, not to have to deal with these inconstancies...

    Anyway, this is sort of important for AGFA to hear, but also is a bit out of topic, but I don't want it taken down as OT either because it's important to know.

    So if you produce APX100 and it's really great, I would buy some, but I would not invest in stock of 120 at $4/roll if a box of 20 4x5's was $65/box and 35mm were $8/roll, make sense? the prices should match so we aren't detracted by comparing those prices to other films which we see as similar. For example FP4+ (25 sheets) is $32/box but Acros100 for only 20 sheets is $56/box ... it makes no sense, it also turns me off from using that film as I feel slighted. But if I were to find out arista had a secret rebranded Acros100 that was in 4x5 for only $32, not only would I buy that, but I would know for sure that I was being price gouged because they obviously can make it much cheaper and still sell it to Arista.

    Just some thoughts to ponder...

    Quote Originally Posted by zsas View Post
    Well said. Even in today's non-film world, premium films are the norm. I hardly see any rolls of Freestyle Arista Premium in the below. Typical American drugstore counter....

    ~Stone | "...of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." ~Dennis Miller

  4. #154
    clayne's Avatar
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    400tx which many pro's use, but isn't a pro film
    C'mon... Tri-X is absolutely a pro film. Do you know how many great images have been made on this film, by professionals and the like? Absolutely stellar film and it's deserving of it's reputation.
    Stop worrying about grain, resolution, sharpness, and everything else that doesn't have a damn thing to do with substance.

    http://www.flickr.com/kediwah

  5. #155
    zsas's Avatar
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    Well said^ and I might add 400CN is crazy sharp and beautiful. It clearly says on the box "professional", guess that is marketing lingo....
    Andy

  6. #156
    Roger Cole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alessandro Serrao View Post
    If this statement is true, why then continue shooting analog?
    Digital is much cheaper!
    I like the current products fine. I'll be happy with analog as long as I can get them. Heck, I'd be happy with just those from Ilford though I like to see some competition so I'm glad Foma, Adox etc. are around.

  7. #157
    Roger Cole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADOX Fotoimpex View Post
    This film was sold to Freestyle by Kodak prior to Kodak going into chapter 11.
    It´s for sure a good deal today. But will it keep film allive for long if costs for the materials, labour and energy are higher than the end users price?
    Companies need to make a profit. For some reason I am under the impression that photographers in general deny this to film producing companies. They are all bust by now except for Fuji. Do you really think you made them to rhich?

    Mirko
    I use the best film for the job, not the cheapest. Sure, I shoot that Arista Tri-X because if I didn't I'd shoot Tri-X and it's the same. But if I want Delta 3200, I shoot Delta 3200, not the cheapest film I can find. I like your MCC 110 paper and use it. It isn't cheap - there are quite a few less expensive papers on the market but the difference is pretty small given my limited time for my hobby, and the difference in results is much larger than the difference in price.

    If you make a superior product (in whatever way sets it apart) and price it for a reasonable profit, people will buy it unless it's way out of the zone of the competition. I doubt I'd use any 400 speed black and white film that cost, for example, $20 a roll, no matter how superior, when I can get TMY-2 or Tri-X or HP5+ for 1/5th to 1/4th that. But I said I would pay $20 a roll for some good infrared film that was like old HIE, for example - not a lot of rolls a year, but I'd buy some. And I'm buying some Provia 400X at nearly $16 a roll while I still can, because it's great film soon to be gone and nothing else like it.

  8. #158
    StoneNYC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by clayne View Post
    C'mon... Tri-X is absolutely a pro film. Do you know how many great images have been made on this film, by professionals and the like? Absolutely stellar film and it's deserving of it's reputation.
    I like the other guys "I guess professional is marketing lingo" comment haha

    I did state that even though pro's use the film, doesn't make it a "pro" film. Tmax400 is the pro film ... Portra is a pro film, and I guess the BW400CN is technically a pro film, but then why don't they offer it in other sizes that pro's use, 35mm is for amateurs hehehehe
    ~Stone | "...of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." ~Dennis Miller

  9. #159
    zsas's Avatar
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    ^Oh Stone....ah oh....

    Cue the HCB'rs.....
    Andy

  10. #160
    MattKing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneNYC View Post
    I like the other guys "I guess professional is marketing lingo" comment haha

    I did state that even though pro's use the film, doesn't make it a "pro" film. Tmax400 is the pro film ... Portra is a pro film, and I guess the BW400CN is technically a pro film, but then why don't they offer it in other sizes that pro's use, 35mm is for amateurs hehehehe
    pffft
    Matt

    “Photography is a complex and fluid medium, and its many factors are not applied in simple sequence. Rather, the process may be likened to the art of the juggler in keeping many balls in the air at one time!”

    Ansel Adams, from the introduction to The Negative - The New Ansel Adams Photography Series / Book 2



 

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