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  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by analog what is that? View Post
    PS looking at my notes, could this be the CAS number for Dimezione, and if thats the case, WHAT type Dimenzione exactly :

    2654-58-2
    http://www.chemblink.com/products/2654-58-2.htm
    This suggests its Phenidone D

    Dave

  2. #12

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    Name 4,4-Dimethyl-1-phenyl-3-pyrazolidone
    Synonyms Phenidone D

    Molecular Structure

    Molecular Formula C11H14N2O
    Molecular Weight 190.24
    CAS Registry Number 2654-58-2
    EINECS 220-181-1

    *****************************

    Name Phenidone
    Synonyms 1-Phenyl-3-pyrazolidone; 1-Phenyl-3-pyrazolidinone; Graphidone

    Molecular Structure

    Molecular Formula C9H10N2O
    Molecular Weight 162.19
    CAS Registry Number 92-43-3
    EINECS 202-155-1

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by analog what is that? View Post
    Name 4,4-Dimethyl-1-phenyl-3-pyrazolidone
    Synonyms Phenidone D

    Molecular Structure

    Molecular Formula C11H14N2O
    Molecular Weight 190.24
    CAS Registry Number 2654-58-2
    EINECS 220-181-1

    *****************************

    Name Phenidone
    Synonyms 1-Phenyl-3-pyrazolidone; 1-Phenyl-3-pyrazolidinone; Graphidone

    Molecular Structure

    Molecular Formula C9H10N2O
    Molecular Weight 162.19
    CAS Registry Number 92-43-3
    EINECS 202-155-1
    Name Dimezone S
    Synonyms 4-Hydroxymethyl-4-methyl-1-phenyl-3-pyrazolidone
    copyRight
    Molecular Structure Dimezone S, 4-Hydroxymethyl-4-methyl-1-phenyl-3-pyrazolidone, CAS #: 13047-13-7
    Molecular Formula C11H14N2O2
    Molecular Weight 206.24
    CAS Registry Number 13047-13-7
    EINECS 235-920-3

    Properties
    Melting point 122-126 ºC
    Water solubility 7.1 g/L (20 ºC)

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by analog what is that? View Post
    Name 4,4-Dimethyl-1-phenyl-3-pyrazolidone
    Synonyms Phenidone D

    Molecular Structure

    Molecular Formula C11H14N2O
    Molecular Weight 190.24
    CAS Registry Number 2654-58-2
    EINECS 220-181-1

    *****************************

    Name Phenidone
    Synonyms 1-Phenyl-3-pyrazolidone; 1-Phenyl-3-pyrazolidinone; Graphidone

    Molecular Structure

    Molecular Formula C9H10N2O
    Molecular Weight 162.19
    CAS Registry Number 92-43-3
    EINECS 202-155-1
    The CAS Registry Number 92-43-3 also gives this information on http://www.chemicalbook.com/CASEN_2654-58-2.htm
    ?Name?

    4,4-Dimethyl-1-phenyl-3-pyrazolidone
    ?CAS?

    2654-58-2
    ?Synonyms?

    4,4-DIMETHYL-1-PHENYL-3-PYRAZOLIDINONE
    4,4'-DIMETHYL-1-PHENYL-3-PYRAZOLIDONE
    4,4-DIMETHYL-1-PHENYL-3-PYRAZOLIDONE
    DIMEZONE
    DIMEZORE
    LABOTEST-BB LT00440816
    TIMTEC-BB SBB003657
    4,4-dimethyl-1-phenyl-3-pyrazolidinon
    4,4-dimethylphenidone
    nsc215239
    4,4-Dimethyl-1-phenyl-3-pyrozolidinone
    4,4-Dimethyl-1-phenyl-3-pyrazolidione
    3-Pyrazolidinone, 4,4-dimethyl-1-phenyl-
    4,4-Dimethyl-1-phenyl-3-pyrazolidone (Dimezone)
    4,4-Dimethyl-1-phenyl-3-pyrazolidon
    4,4-DIMETHYL-1-PHENYL-3-PYRAZOLIDONE DIMESON
    Phenidone D
    DIMEZONE (4,4-DIMETHYL-1-PHENYL-3-PYRAZOLIDINONE)
    dimethyl-phenylpyrazolidine DPP
    4,4-Dimethyl-1-phenylpyrazolidin-3-one

    Please notice that Phenidone D is also known as Dimezone, the version with out the S-ending.

  5. #15

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    There 3 types of Phenidone (or Dimensione) make a note of the variation in molecular weight, this has a large impact on the formula....
    Couple this with possible and expected variations in activity between them, we need to be very careful here....

    So now the question is, does the experts chiming in on this thread know of differences between these and has recommendations on what CAS number we should get?

  6. #16
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    I've stated before that stability in alkali goes up in the series Phenidone, Dimezone, and Dimezone S. The last word is that Dimezone S was the preferred agent and all new Kodak formulas would have used it. All Kodak instant films used it. Dimezone S is about the same in activity as the others. It appears to be less active, but that is partly due to the molecular weight compared to Phenidone.

    I think that some scanned examples of films produced by this developer compared to Xtol would be useful.

    PE

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by albada View Post
    Notice that XTOL is well above 8.20. I thought my meter was reading high, but I did a two-point calibration, and it passes the Borax-test. Methinks that Kodak boosted the pH a little after filing the patent.

    Ryuji, when testing DS-10, you noticed that some 100-speed films develop poorly below pH 8.2. I suspect that Kodak observed the same thing late in the game, and boosted pH to give themselves more pH-headroom. Either that or my meter's defective.
    As far as I know, Kodak never changed the pH of XTOL. pH of 8.20 and 8.37 would require serious adjustment in development time.

    But you are using single junction gel-filled electrode, so I am not sure how trustworthy your measurements are.

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by analog what is that? View Post
    Just wanted to ask about Phenidone, since more and more esoteric names for this has started to fly:

    *****************************

    To me it seems obvious it is very important to know what type of Phenidone one has, and adjust the recipes for this, if comparing notes shall serve any meaningful purpose at all.
    The variants have differences but they are mostly related to solubility (Dimezone is least soluble, Phenidone B and Dimezone S are a bit more soluble, Phenidone A is most soluble) and stability (Phenidone A is least stable in alkaline solution, Phenidone B a bit better; Dimezone and Dimezone S are about the same and better than Phenidone A/B) and there is not much to worry about in terms of adjusting the quantities. If you are preparing developers from powder and for immediate use, Phenidone A or Dimezone S is best. Otherwise, Dimezone S is the only winner.

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by albada View Post
    Here are the pH's I measured:
    3.5 g of AA: pH 8.21
    2.8 g of AA: pH 8.33
    XTOL: 8.37
    OP said pH was 8.20 with 2.8g AA. Before that, you were saying below 8.00 in the other thread. Now you are saying 8.33. Are you not worried about these huge discrepancies? Something is wrong in your system.

  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryuji View Post
    OP said pH was 8.20 with 2.8g AA. Before that, you were saying below 8.00 in the other thread. Now you are saying 8.33. Are you not worried about these huge discrepancies? Something is wrong in your system.
    Very good! I was waiting for somebody to notice that difference. I recently got a pH meter, and was struggling with reconciling its measurements. Also, the other thread has a different amount of AA.

    Anyway, I haven't heard anyone say that they already knew about this formula, so it appears to be new. I'll do more tinkering and testing, but it's lower priority, so results won't come soon.

    Mark Overton

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