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  1. #21
    Flotsam's Avatar
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    Matt,
    It is funny how many time I search Google for information on a photographic topic and wind up being directed back to APUG.
    That is called grain. It is supposed to be there.
    =Neal W.=

  2. #22
    blansky's Avatar
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    "I keep tryin' to leave and they keep pullin me back in"

    Al Pacino, in something or other.

  3. #23
    James Bleifus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean
    I also suggest not replying to the thread and even adding the thread owner to your ignore list.
    I finally added that zone thread owner to my ignore list since it was obvious he was baiting people. I hope it's the first and last time I use that feature. Still, I thought the Zone was handled brilliantly.

    Michael, don't you have a limerick for Prince Chuck and his soon to be bride?

    Cheers,

    James

  4. #24
    Flotsam's Avatar
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    If you ignore the thread owner, does it zap the whole thread from your list?
    That is called grain. It is supposed to be there.
    =Neal W.=

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flotsam
    If you ignore the thread owner, does it zap the whole thread from your list?
    Nope ... just what he or she posted in it

  6. #26
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    I found some code for an 'ignore thread' feature. I'll try to get it installed soon. It adds "Ignore this thread" to the Thread Tools menu

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean
    Hi all,

    I am a bit concerned over some recent threads and how they seemed designed to provoke people and cause controversy. This is sometimes known as trolling or baiting. We all know how these threads end up and I feel they should have no place here..

    It's pretty easy to tell when a thread is a genuine attempt to make people think vs. something designed to cause controversy. If you feel a thread has been designed to cause problems, then please feel free to make use of the "report" button in the bottom right corner of the posting. I also suggest not replying to the thread and even adding the thread owner to your ignore list.

    Thanks, Sean
    Sean and everyone:

    Provoking thought is a good thing. Cultural critique is a good thing. What bothers some people is that anyone would question the value of something in which they have made a huge emotional investment.

    It is no crime to question or to critique the 'culture' or 'aesthetic' of the zone system, quite apart from any technical critique of it. That there are substantial technical issues with it is another matter, but surely the cultural critique itself is legitimate.

    I find spending time with only those whose opinions align with mine to be unrewarding.

    I have myself changed my approach to photographic exposure and development over the years. In other words: I was wrong. I learned from these mistakes and began to figure out how to learn better and faster.

    Odds are, if you cannot stand anyone challenging what you hold to, there is something wrong.

    I can explain, step by step, in detail, exactly why I do what I do in B&W photography, and why those practices and procedures provide higher quality and greater ease of operation than alternative procedures. I can give you the physics and chemistry of it, not fairy tales or legends. I can perform comparative tests (which I did, of course) which clearly show differences in films, developers, lenses, and procedures.

    Not everyone does this. Many people learn photography from a class or two, or a book or two, or the advice of a friend. And of course the basics are usually the same. What differentiates merely good results from the best possible results can sometimes be quite elusive and subtle, and not discovered for years, because you're looking in the wrong place. Cut your agitation in half, and presto, your prints look marvelous! (and here you thought it was your developer!)

    Those who are not accustomed to a highly critical environment do not know how to take this. They feel uneasy and threatened. Not everyone has had the opportunity to defend a dissertation or philosophy paper. Not everyone has a knack for finding the weaknesses in an opponent's chain of reasoning. Not everyone knows which sources are the most reliable and which ones are not, and why. These people do not understand why some of us want to engage them in this way. Their reaction is often anger and frustration, and expressions of 'ban the bastard!'

    If you wish to be surrounded by only those who will never question what you do or why you do it, I must ask you whether you truly want to grow.

    Ornello Pederzoli, II
    Last edited by Ornello Pederzoli II; 04-06-2005 at 09:57 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  8. #28
    c6h6o3's Avatar
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    Bob F.'s suggestion is the best one - block his IP address at the firewall. He will never stop posting provocative comments. An 'ignore thread' feature still plays his game - you can ignore the thread but he will still have wrecked what had started out as a useful thread, driving people away in the process.

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by c6h6o3
    Bob F.'s suggestion is the best one - block his IP address at the firewall. He will never stop posting provocative comments. An 'ignore thread' feature still plays his game - you can ignore the thread but he will still have wrecked what had started out as a useful thread, driving people away in the process.
    'Provocative'.

    What do you mean?

  10. #30
    John Bartley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean
    Hi all,
    I am a bit concerned over some recent threads and how they seemed designed to provoke people and cause controversy. This is sometimes known as trolling or baiting. We all know how these threads end up and I feel they should have no place here..
    It's pretty easy to tell when a thread is a genuine attempt to make people think vs. something designed to cause controversy. If you feel a thread has been designed to cause problems, then please feel free to make use of the "report" button in the bottom right corner of the posting. I also suggest not replying to the thread and even adding the thread owner to your ignore list.
    Thanks, Sean
    This is my $0.02 regarding "The Lounge"::

    The lounge is a place for discussions about almost anything, not for "anything goes"

    I wouldn't want to see lounge discussions stopped or cutailed for as one astute respondant (Hello Neal) noted, thete are some good bits of useful and/or entertaining information that come out of even the most dynamic off topic threads.

    What I would like to see is self control with regard to expressions of anger, profanity etc. When the posters become abusive and/or profane, then everyone suffers and that's about the only time that I'd like to see threads and/or posters stopped.

    I am strongly in favour of posting with real full names and addresses. I've always discounted the value of a post that's made from a position of anonymity.

    The suggestion of not replying is excellent, but we are after all human, so... it's not likely gonna' happen eh?

    As far as the non-lounge forums - they have rules, they are NOT the place for trolling - they should be more strictly enforced than the lounge with regard to behaviour and manners towards others as well as suitability of the topic. That doesn't mean no arguments, it just means that we keep a civil polite tone while we argue like hell.

    Maybe members and subscribers should have to apply for access rather than just register?

    Personally, with exception of a couple of posts, I didn't find the last round of exchanges overly bad, just a bit emotional on a couple of topics that deserved emotion.

    cheers eh?

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