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  1. #11

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    I agree that a limited restriction is good. Just don't get rid of it....I don't want to go back to watching daytime soap operas.

  2. #12
    rfshootist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mhv
    It starts looking like an overfull toilet: better flush it before it smears the wall. Perhaps an auto-delete function? Do you guys think keeping an archive of such discussions might be useful in the long term?
    Would be my question too. In principle the idea to channel all crap into a separated pot is positive, but somehow it is like a s**thouse in the middle of the living room.
    Why can't those go out in the woods who must get rid periodically of their mental diarrhoe ?
    It would be better to keep that stuff completely out of the forum, and that is not impossible, it needs a consequent going through with the rules of decent communication and with keeping out a certain kinda issues. This Soapbox is an image killer.

    bertram
    A la recherche du temps perdu: www. bersac.de

  3. #13
    David A. Goldfarb's Avatar
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    Having that discussion in the forums was definitely an image killer. Managing it didn't get rid of it, but led to yet more image-killing discussion, threads about moderation policy, constant monitoring, having to delete posts and ban members, and all the behind-the-scenes discussion and correspondence that went along with it, and then having to ban troublemakers who would re-register under a new ID and cause more trouble.

    I've been on a few forums that have "safety valve" areas and by and large they work pretty well. They start out controversial, and then they pretty much settle down into backwaters that no one visits except for occasional amusement. Thus far, it's worked pretty well here, and I think the new refinements should continue to keep the non-productive discussion at the margins.
    flickr--http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidagoldfarb/
    Photography (not as up to date as the flickr site)--http://www.davidagoldfarb.com/photo
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  4. #14
    chiller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rfshootist
    Would be my question too. In principle the idea to channel all crap into a separated pot is positive, but somehow it is like a s**thouse in the middle of the living room.
    Why can't those go out in the woods who must get rid periodically of their mental diarrhoe ?
    It would be better to keep that stuff completely out of the forum, and that is not impossible, it needs a consequent going through with the rules of decent communication and with keeping out a certain kinda issues. This Soapbox is an image killer.

    bertram
    I placed the Soapbox on ignore not long after joining APUG. It is a very useless waste of bandwith, has nothing to do with photography and does not offer anything of worth photographically to potential new mwembers who are browsing the site. The attitudes are less than civil in most cases or degenerate to that point very quickly.

    This sums it up perfectly -- quote --

    " ---- but somehow it is like a s**thouse in the middle of the living room."

    Until I discovered the ignore function I was very seriously considering leaving the forum.
    Steve

  5. #15
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    David, FWIW, I think you and the other moderators are doing a good job in handling the controversial "resource" the Soap Box represents. Personally, I'm happy with whatever you folks want to do with it, as I try very hard not to go there.

    While I recognize the benefit of having a "safety valve area" on a high-traffic forum, it's unfortunate that otherwise mature adults need such a resource and require others to manage their behavior.
    [COLOR=SlateGray]"You can't depend on your eyes if your imagination is out of focus." -Mark Twain[/COLOR]

    Ralph Barker
    Rio Rancho, NM

  6. #16
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    I don't go there at all anymore.
    Robert M. Teague
    www.visionlandscapes.com
    www.apug.org/forums/portfolios.php?u=2235

    "A man who works with his hands is a laborer; a man who works with his hands and his brain is a craftsman; a man who works with his hands and his brain and his heart is an artist" -- Louis Nizer

  7. #17
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    The Soapbox was created as a solution to a problem.
    Before it was created, threads on current events or Digital vs. Analog or even analog photographic related topics would pop up that would quickly spin into furballs as others would jump in to state or defend their own opinions. These would spring up in the Lounge or worse, an otherwise interesting and informative photographic thread would be hijacked off topic and ruined by a few hot heads in a personal pissing contest. Sean, and later the several moderators that he eventually had to recruit just in order to keep on top of the problem, were caught in the position of finding the problem, deciding when it was more than a small dust-up that could be overlooked and trying to deal with it by asking, then warning, and sometimes by deleting. Deletions would inevitably be followed by an even longer angry argument about free speech and censorship on the internet. It turned into a truly confusing mess when certain posts would be deleted and then there would be references back to something within the deleted post further on in the thread. If you were just reading it through, nothing would make sense. I found it annoying, imagine what prospective new members or people googling into the site thought of it.

    Once the Soapbox was created, any members who just couldn't resist starting an OT controversial thread had a place to do it and everyone else could either respond or completely ignore it as they wished. If someone started such a thread or hijacked a legitimate one elsewhere in the forums, a moderator could quickly move it to the SB. No censorship issue. It was merely moved to the appropriate place on the site.
    Not a perfect solution but I think that it has worked out pretty well.

    I'm surprised that so many people who claim to be happily ignoring the Soapbox now are so vehiment about simply pulling the plug and eliminating it. I sure hope that they have a better plan to replace it.

    Quote Originally Posted by rfshootist
    In principle the idea to channel all crap into a separated pot is positive, but somehow it is like a s**thouse in the middle of the living room.
    The more apt analogy would be "Why have a separate, isolated bathroom in your home?"
    The obvious answer is "So people don't crap in all the other rooms"

    Perhaps a lesson can be learned from what happened when Arigram pulled a toilet out of his darkroom as related in his "My darkroom smells like poop" thread :o
    That is called grain. It is supposed to be there.
    =Neal W.=

  8. #18
    Sean's Avatar
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    does not offer anything of worth photographically to potential new mwembers who are browsing the site.
    Now potential new members can no longer see the soapbox. unregistered members can not see it, registered members can not see it and now only subscribers with 5 posts under their belt can see it. So this should tackle most of the 1st impression issues. Everything David and Flotsam say above is pretty spot on. Without the soapbox I think we'd have trouble keeping moderators on board and keeping dustups out of the general forums..

  9. #19
    André E.C.'s Avatar
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    The Soap Box act as a filter, therefore, there`s a reason for it`s existence within the community.

    Cheers

    André

  10. #20
    rfshootist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flotsam
    The more apt analogy would be "Why have a separate, isolated bathroom in your home?"
    The obvious answer is "So people don't crap in all the other rooms"
    I'll try to make it clearer:
    What I wanted to say is that this toilet, which you cannot flush, isn't really "isolated". In which way ever, it is part of the forum and that is why I keep it as an image killer, hidden or not.
    So the real analogy would be this is a room where everyboy can go s**t on the floor.I would not like to have such a room in my flat.

    I admit one can have another POV here too, no question. Especially seen from the standpoint of the moderator, who would have a much harder and more time eating job without the soapbox. And so it is not a perfect but an economical solution anyway.

    bertram
    A la recherche du temps perdu: www. bersac.de

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