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  1. #101

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    Compared to the average income or the value of money the prices for films today are still cheaper than 20 years ago. So a higher price won't kill the market.

    And companies like Adox or efke are profitable and can make films on a small scale basis.

  2. #102

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    Quote Originally Posted by thomas l View Post
    And companies like Adox or efke are profitable and can make films on a small scale basis.
    ...because the quality stinks. And it's old outdated stuff.

  3. #103

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    Quote Originally Posted by thomas l View Post
    Compared to the average income or the value of money the prices for films today are still cheaper than 20 years ago. So a higher price won't kill the market.

    And companies like Adox or efke are profitable and can make films on a small scale basis.
    Of course it will. Think about it for a moment. 20 years ago there was no low-cost substitute. And as soon as the substitute became available it caused enormous damage to the film market, causing the prices to go down.
    And once you get to the point of having less and less choice, the most normal thing happens: price goes up.

    That's economy 101, mon cher.

  4. #104
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    I have no idea what this will mean for Kodak products and I don't dare speculate. I do know that this can not be good for Rochester, having lived there I know what Kodak means to that town, going way beyond the employment numbers. Beyond that it can not be good for Kodak retirees who are sure to see a loss in their pensions. When a corporation (or a Trump) declares bankruptcy it is seen as a smart business move, but when an individual is forced to do so it is seen as a personal moral failing. Many people will be hurt by this move on Kodak's part, maybe even our own PE. I will be sad if I can no longer get TMY but that seems pretty small by comparison.

  5. #105

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    Quote Originally Posted by erikg View Post
    I have no idea what this will mean for Kodak products and I don't dare speculate. I do know that this can not be good for Rochester, having lived there I know what Kodak means to that town, going way beyond the employment numbers. Beyond that it can not be good for Kodak retirees who are sure to see a loss in their pensions. When a corporation (or a Trump) declares bankruptcy it is seen as a smart business move, but when an individual is forced to do so it is seen as a personal moral failing. Many people will be hurt by this move on Kodak's part, maybe even our own PE. I will be sad if I can no longer get TMY but that seems pretty small by comparison.
    Excellent points. Not sure to what extent Rochester still revolves around Kodak but it's definitely not a good story.

  6. #106
    MDR
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    Since your former and current president didn't have a problem with saving GMC, AIG, several Banks because they were supposedly important for the economy and the state he could save Kodak in order to save Rochester and several thousand employees but then again they aren't banksters or heavy contributors to presidential campaigns. Mr. Obama please save this important american heritage, please save Kodak.

    Dominik

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by NB23 View Post
    Of course it will. Think about it for a moment. 20 years ago there was no low-cost substitute. And as soon as the substitute became available it caused enormous damage to the film market, causing the prices to go down.
    And once you get to the point of having less and less choice, the most normal thing happens: price goes up.

    That's economy 101, mon cher.
    Worse, Kodak volumes subsidized the entire supply and distribution chain related to emulsion products. When Kodak declares Ch. 11, then there will considerable creditor (not just investor) scrutiny of anything to do with film as it is technically a "credit event". This will result in more upwards cost pressure, not just for Kodak. Especially hard hit will be MP Film industry where reliance on financing is endemic, so a move to the less risky digital may be be an outcome. Films scheduled to be shot on Kodak film now may not be. While money and artistry collide regularly, this will tilt the ball even further towards digital production. The Kodak financial information demonstrates the sad but spectacular fall of film from common use worldwide both in MP Film and for analog photography. The concept of small volume film production is itself threatened by unproven demand and no floor in sight for plummeting film sales.

    At home with the flu and it being -10 C out, it's more fun re-imagining the business case for roll and cartridge film than it is reading boring muni bond prospectus' :-)

  8. #108

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael R 1974 View Post
    ...because the quality stinks. And it's old outdated stuff.
    Do you base that judgement on personal experience, and can you post any examples to prove the point (I only ask because I'd be interested to know)?

  9. #109
    Richard Sintchak (rich815)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael R 1974 View Post
    ...because the quality stinks. And it's old outdated stuff.
    Really? All of the emulsions? Great. Now what am I going do with my 4x5 boxes of Efke 25? Before I knew this I was making some pretty decent images. ;-)
    -----------------------

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  10. #110

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    What a load of "§$%&. Ilford does not overproduce, has an excellent palette of B&W film stock yet their rolls don't cost much more than Kodak's, in some countries even less.
    Of course it overproduces. At least HP5. What do you think explains the 2-for-1 and 3-for-2 fire-sales? Over stock. So big, IMO, that there was serious fear of having unsold stocks reaching their expiry date. That's really bad for business.
    Besides, Ilford products are more expensive then Kodak's in Canada and even in the UK, some people have reported.

    Film prices have gone up substantially for US folks yet the demand for photographic film stays flat - and that in the face of a double dip recession.
    It was up, then down and will slowly go up again. Especially if a mass-producer like Kodak stops producing.
    And how do you know that demand is flat? The demand for film is the most well kept secret and you know it is flat? Just by Ilford's recent fire-sales you have to realize that the demand is pretty low unless you drop the price like crazy.
    In other words: Low price=high demand for a short period of time, people will stock up and stop demand. High price=low demand. High price for a longer period of time=dead market.



 

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