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  1. #21
    vpwphoto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by railwayman3 View Post
    Would Ilford want to take on making other B&W films which would likely only take sales from their own existing and similar product range? I've not seen any rush by other companies to pick up Pan-X, Plus-X, and all the other discontinued Kodak products.
    Another Car analogy however flawed:

    It's not like Cadillac or Lincoln picked up Duesenberg even though there were still customers that wanted the product even some 20-30 -40- and 70 years latter.... a few failed independent attempts, but nothing as good as the originals.

    I bought a brick of Tri-x in November from another dying institution... Central Camera on Wabash up in Chicago.
    They still write out your sales slip... and that was pissing me off because I was "over" on my meter outside and the guy was writing so slow.... then had to punch in my card manually on a 30 year old terminal.

    They did have a NOS Black Hasselblad 500cm kit for sale!!

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by michaelbsc View Post
    Get real. I know you said "should" be investigated. But it won't happen.
    Some investigative journalists have already made quite damming accusation against a few of the directors over the past 2 or 3 years. But your probably right there may mot be a body in the US who are capable of carrying out an official investigation.

    Ian

  3. #23
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    Central Camera is one of my favorite places to visit when I go to Chicago. Since I'm there to ride and photo the Loop trains, I don't have to worry about meters.


    Kent in SD

  4. #24
    vpwphoto's Avatar
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    I like Pan F a lot!
    I don't use Tri-x as much as I should.... T-Max won me over in 1987!!!
    Never cared much for HP5... it could never be rated as high as Tri-x lest my process at the time yielded thin negatives with high contrast.... and that blue colored base... maybe that was the problem?

    Funny 8 years ago we in the professional ranks were still wondering if digital will make the grade... now seems like our hand will be forced regardless or any hold-out opinions!

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Grant View Post
    Some investigative journalists have already made quite damming accusation against a few of the directors over the past 2 or 3 years. But your probably right there may mot be a body in the US who are capable of carrying out an official investigation.
    And has little to do with Kodak's financial issues.

    99.999% of their customer base went to digital despite Kodak being one of the most recognized brands with a staggering powerful marketing structure and film an iconic product in its own right. Until about 5 years ago Kodak seemed to be handing the transition to digital quite well and has one of the largest patent portfolios for digital in the imaging industry.

    But the near total collapse of film sales came about much faster than anticipated and management started making some dreadful, ad hoc decisions, like trying to be a printer company at the same time as online sharing was just taking off, and bungling Kodak Gallery which initially was a much better system than Flickr. Management was counting on a revenue stream from film sales that literally went down by 90% over about 16 business quarters.

    Anything a few Directors said or did during that timeframe would not have stopped those losses. The consumers voted in massive numbers, quickly, and irrevocably. Sometimes a market moves and no management can keep up or have such perfect foresight. This was not a situation where better marketing or even pricing could have helped. The entire cultural zeitgeist has changed, permanently. Film has no ability to compete against digital in the mass market.

    Ironically, I think film can survive so long as it develops itself as a niche, "old school" product with certain look and historic appeal. Anyone who does purchase Kodak's film assets (and they will get them for near nothing as the revenues are in freefall with no known bottom) would be wise to go back to Kodak's original slogan: " You press the button, we do the rest". Ilford's tactic here is interesting with their mail-in system (although it is horrendously expensive for shipping). There is nowhere near enough home developing hobbyist demand to sustain industrial production lines for emulsions for 135 and 120, especially with virtually no new film cameras being made in any mass market quantity (Lomography sort of the exception, and more like a vulture than a pollinator). Any new investor will likely need to square that circle. Perhaps a white knight might come from the motion picture side of things?

    Interesting times.

  6. #26
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    The Tribune Company declared bankruptcy three years ago and I'm still getting my newspaper, so I wouldn't get too excited.

  7. #27
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    From their last reported Q (3/2011).

    ROCHESTER, N.Y., Nov. 3 – Eastman Kodak Company (NYSE:EK) today reported steady
    progress toward becoming a profitable and sustainable digital company as third-quarter digital
    earnings improved, excluding non-recurring patent licensing revenue in the prior-year period, and
    sales increased in its core digital growth businesses. Total company revenue declined largely
    because of lower sales of traditional products, a planned reduction in digital camera sales, and the
    absence, compared to the year-ago period, of significant non-recurring patent licensing revenue.
    Third-quarter sales were $1.462 billion, a 17% decrease from the year-ago quarter or only 5%
    when excluding the benefit of a $210 million non-recurring patent licensing transaction in the yearago
    period. Third-quarter digital revenue grew 3% excluding that year-ago intellectual property
    revenue and a 25% decline in the company’s Digital Cameras & Devices business, which reflects
    the strategic decision this year to trade revenue for improved earnings. Revenue from the core
    digital growth businesses – Consumer and Commercial Inkjet, Workflow Software & Services, and
    Packaging Solutions – increased 13%, fueled by 44% revenue growth in Consumer Inkjet printers
    and ink, and 89% revenue growth in Packaging Solutions. The revenue decline rate for the
    company’s Film, Photofinishing and Entertainment Group slowed to 10% in the third quarter.
    What's killing Kodak revenues is film, both photo and motion picture. Their overhead to carry this product line as it declines in gross revenues is eating into the capital of the company, and digital services of all types are not growing fast enough to cover those losses. Even if the actual film per roll or issue registers a tiny profit, it's nowhere near enough to make up for their realized losses. It's kind of like switching to a more economic 4-cylinder car from an 8-cylinder truck to save gas, but you're still forced to pull a 20 ft. trailer up a hill.

    Pensions and medical costs are also a huge drag, stated in their annual filings. The outcome scenarios here are brutal and sad.

    Kodak is about 75% down from its historic high point, almost all that loss attributed to consumers voting with their $$$ away from film. While I question some of the strategic vision of the digital side (Kodak had all the tools and patents to become a major sensor supplier starting in the early 1990's) it's hard to see how any management could have stopped the total collapse of films sales and the accompanying revenue.

    I look at a very large # of corporate websites for statements as part of my work and I have to say, the Kodak one is excellent. In fact, for its organization and clarity it's the best I've ever viewed:

    http://investor.kodak.com/phoenix.zh...l-newsEarnings

  8. #28

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    The best case for film shooters is, Kodak will split into a few smaller companies. One of them will be following the direction of Ilford. This way we will still have Tri-X, TMax, Ektar, E100G, XTOL, HC110 for a long while.

  9. #29

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    So doesn't it all look very similar to AGFA story?

  10. #30
    MDR
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    Werra the tiny difference is that Agfa never went Bankcrupt only their Spin off Agfaphoto (courts did investigate this one). I hope Kodak doesn't end up like Polaroid.

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