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  1. #371
    keithwms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDR View Post
    Am I still on Apug or on the why digital is better forum
    I was about to ask the same!

    What was the topic??? Oh... Kodak. That again
    "Only dead fish follow the stream"

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  2. #372

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    Quote Originally Posted by MDR View Post
    Btw. Am I still on Apug or on the why digital is better forum

    Dominik
    Surely posts that seek to contrast analog and digital practices are still at least about photography. Have a look at how many posts there are in this thread about business school economic theory and American politics - these have nothing to do with photography of any stripe. IMO Kodak is just another corporation in financial difficulty; the market and possibly the courts will determine the final outcome. This thread has drifted so far off topic on so many occasions that almost any subject that does not invoke the word 'digital' seems to be considered fair comment. OzJohn

  3. #373
    lxdude's Avatar
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    Well, the thread is titled "The end for Kodak?"!
    I do use a digital device in my photographic pursuits when necessary.
    When someone rags on me for using film, I use a middle digit, upraised.

  4. #374

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    Quote Originally Posted by lxdude View Post
    That or time.

    They are going to degrade at the same rate, so how many there are won't matter.
    Why do people think that digital files are never re-copied? If I have a valuable file, I keep it on magnetic media (disk and/or tape) as well as optical (CD/DVD), and I make backup copies of the disk drive, as well as making periodically making new copies of the CD/DVD's. I don't just make one copy and let it sit on a shelf until the rats chew holes in it.

    Are businesses and governments keeping everything on paper, or are they keeping multiple digital copies?

    These arguments against digital media are getting ridiculous.

  5. #375
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Moose;

    I have a lot of files in Apple ][ and Apple /// format as well as in HPFS format. And, they are all backed up on tape and on Bernoulli systems which are pseudo SCSI. None of them work with today's systems and there was no easy way to move between systems. This happens. I have friends with Heath PCs and IBM PCs and they can't read DOS disks. I have 8" disks with lots of backups.

    I cannot read them and cannot exchange data between these old computers.

    I have a friend with a lot of stuff on a LISA! Wow does he have problems.

    PE

  6. #376
    MDR
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    Moose they use amongst other things film and of course the aformentioned magnetic tapes as well as at least five severs on 5 different earthquake zones. The files are constantly converted to archival file formats meaning images to TIF and the rest to PDF/A unfortunately film (motion pictures) doesn't currently have a worldwide digital archival standard but several that change every year. Converting a file to PDF/A reduces it to a read only file format links don't work etc... Germany, Austria and maybe the US store a lot of digital data on film. The Rosetta Stone project would be the best solution but way to expensive. The most expensive thing to preserve in an archive is digital data everything including film storage is cheap compared to digital long term preservation. A lot of digi guys and archivst have to go to specialised fleamarkets and buy 20-30 year old computers to be able to view and migrate their data. Some of they digi Archivs have to costume build adapters to use old data storage devises on their computers they also have to program emulators to be able to view the data.

    But again I don't think APUG is the right place to discuss these things.

    Dominik

  7. #377
    Ken Nadvornick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moose10101 View Post
    Why do people think that digital files are never re-copied? If I have a valuable file, I keep it on magnetic media (disk and/or tape) as well as optical (CD/DVD), and I make backup copies of the disk drive, as well as making periodically making new copies of the CD/DVD's. I don't just make one copy and let it sit on a shelf until the rats chew holes in it.

    Are businesses and governments keeping everything on paper, or are they keeping multiple digital copies?

    These arguments against digital media are getting ridiculous.
    DATA STORAGE: FROM DIGITS TO DUST
    Surprise--computerized data can decay before you know it
    Bloomberg Businessweek, April 20, 1998


    "Up to 20% of the information carefully collected on Jet Propulsion Laboratory computers during NASA's 1976 Viking mission to Mars has been lost."

    "The data lost from the Viking Mars mission, for example, was trapped on decaying digital magnetic tape, forcing NASA to call mission specialists out of retirement to help the agency reconstruct key data."

    " 'Digital information lasts forever, or five years--whichever comes first,' says Jeff Rothenberg, senior computer scientist at RAND Corp."


    Granted the article is dated, but I am aware of no standardized mainstream technological solution that has been implemented in the years since it was published. To the contrary, every source I read says the problem has only become worse. And the loss of the Viking data is a done deal. I don't even want to imagine what that little miscue cost taxpayers. NASA's bits are some of the most expensive--and often impossible to do over--in the world.

    Ken

    (And the reason this is on-topic is because real film and paper (of all kinds, see the final paragraph in the above article) are considered by many acknowledged experts to be superior to virtual digital archiving methods for many types of information. And that gives us a reason to continue to be...
    "Hate is an adolescent term used to stop discussion with people you disagree with. You can do better than that."
    —'blanksy', December 13, 2013

  8. #378
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    Quote Originally Posted by lxdude View Post
    Well, the thread is titled "The end for Kodak?"!
    http://apple.it-enquirer.com/2009/03...tim-fight-out/

    All about Kodak.

  9. #379
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    Verbatim was once a Kodak subsidiary.

    PE

  10. #380

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    Verbatim was also about the only company that could make decent recordable DVDs that wouldn't go blank in six months. Yeah, I spent way too much time over on videohelp.com.

    ME Super



 

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