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  1. #41
    Aristophanes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by keithwms View Post
    somebody will snatch up the sweet little bargain that is their film sector and stable of respected brands.
    Their film divisions has lost money Q over Q at about 10% per.

    It's a steep decline of demand with no bottom in sight.

    Who buys a product with a declining customer base? Where are the new cameras in which to put new film? Where are the new customers to get that return on investment?

    There is a very real threat that Kodak's entire film production operation is shut down. If their creditor in place financing does not go through, the film division could be starved for operational capital.

    The film division is not a bleeding asset in the eyes of the creditors. The freefall in demand for film will, soon, not cover the expenses to make the product.

  2. #42

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    Prediction is not hard if not cheap. Here will be mine based on the market observation:

    Ilford will live for a long time based solely on their b&w materials.

    Between Fuji and Kodak, one will stay and one will be gone or leave the market of analog photographic materials. The one staying will be based on color material productions, also some b&w and chemicals.

    The only future for Kodak is it will spin off a smaller but solid film company, with a different management who is enthusiastic about the analog photography. Otherwise I will predict it will go the road of Polaroid, with a brand name of Kodak and under this umbrella people selling all kinds of cheap electronics plus $5 sun glasses.

    Fuji is diversifying its production between film, digital, and pharmaceuticals. I wish their success and leave us some unique products like Velvia, Acros, color papers, etc.

  3. #43
    MDR
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    Railwayman you are of course right I meant the first spin off of Agfa after Bayer left the film business Agfaphoto which became a criminal case unfortunately for Agfaphoto their former parent had better lawyers.

    Dominik

  4. #44
    Bob Carnie's Avatar
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    I agree,

    A solid smaller company with dedicated ownership able to use the equipment of choice would be a good thing. Having coating alleys in North America working with different emulsions is too much to hope for.

    Quote Originally Posted by bwfans View Post
    Prediction is not hard if not cheap. Here will be mine based on the market observation:

    Ilford will live for a long time based solely on their b&w materials.

    Between Fuji and Kodak, one will stay and one will be gone or leave the market of analog photographic materials. The one staying will be based on color material productions, also some b&w and chemicals.

    The only future for Kodak is it will spin off a smaller but solid film company, with a different management who is enthusiastic about the analog photography. Otherwise I will predict it will go the road of Polaroid, with a brand name of Kodak and under this umbrella people selling all kinds of cheap electronics plus $5 sun glasses.

    Fuji is diversifying its production between film, digital, and pharmaceuticals. I wish their success and leave us some unique products like Velvia, Acros, color papers, etc.

  5. #45
    Aristophanes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Carnie View Post
    A solid smaller company with dedicated ownership able to use the equipment of choice would be a good thing. Having coating alleys in North America working with different emulsions is too much to hope for.
    But who will put forth the money for a company making products for a shrinking consumer base?

    Without new cameras as part of the formula, the consumer base for film emulsions of any kind from any company, Ilford included, will continue to shrink, not grow, and not even stabilize.

  6. #46
    Mustafa Umut Sarac's Avatar
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    Some investors rented the Polaroid factory to coat flexible solar panels. May be Kodak Film Coating machinery have other uses.

  7. #47
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    sorry I am speaking of paper materials and some niche film products.

    Before the advent of Digital has clouded the scene, there are hundreds of millions of negatives still to be printed.
    People are converting digital files to negative with in great numbers.

    MAS is coating paper in Europe, I am not sure how many runs he has done so far and Mirko in Europe has been able to coat the Agfa Classic formula.

    Maybe Adobe will step up and buy a few coating alleys, most of us printers are using their software, maybe a natural progression for them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aristophanes View Post
    But who will put forth the money for a company making products for a shrinking consumer base?

    Without new cameras as part of the formula, the consumer base for film emulsions of any kind from any company, Ilford included, will continue to shrink, not grow, and not even stabilize.

  8. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aristophanes View Post
    From their last reported Q (3/2011).I look at a very large # of corporate websites for statements as part of my work and I have to say, the Kodak one is excellent.
    Ahh, it is all beginning to make sense now, you are mistakenly logged into APUG when you should be logged into CPUG ( Capitalist Pundit User Group )...:-)

    Can you give it a rest for a bit and do your self a favor...well, us a favor and just wait and see what happens...and buy some film and use it, if you really do photography at all?

    By the way everyone: This forum is one of *THE* worst in terms of all talk and no action, little brilliant imagery, etc. Think about that, really....
    Last edited by PKM-25; 01-05-2012 at 12:18 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  9. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aristophanes View Post
    But who will put forth the money for a company making products for a shrinking consumer base?
    People with imagination and vision. People who believe they know where the bottom is and have a plan to operate profitably at those volumes. It will require that these people acquire the machinery at scrap prices and product rights for practically nothing. It must be an asset-only purchase including no liability for retirees (sorry, PE). Oh, and they must be able to keep the people with the large brains, the chemists and engineers with all the specialized knowledge.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aristophanes View Post
    Without new cameras as part of the formula, the consumer base for film emulsions of any kind from any company, Ilford included, will continue to shrink, not grow, and not even stabilize.
    At the bottom end, how difficult can it be to build a 21st century version of an Instamatic or Hawkeye? How difficult can it be to partner with an existing manufacturer to produce a film version of an existing dslr by taking out 90% of the circuitry, adding film handling hardware and slapping on a Kodak label? I doubt those companies have forgotten how to build a film body. If they dust off an old design, startup costs would be very low, mainly for tooling up the manufacturing.

    Producing products for a niche market is very possible, especially if that niche is actually world-wide via sophisticated web marketing.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by PKM-25 View Post
    Ahh, it is all beginning to make sense now, you are mistakenly logged into APUG when you should be logged into CPUG ( Capitalist Pundit User Group ).

    I work in photography as all of my work, read, shoot for a living, with film and have *direct* contact with people at Kodak, Ilford, labs, etc. In short, you don't have a clue...

    You keep on and on and on about no new cameras being made and have no clue that there are a couple of people who are about to start "tuning up" those billions of film cameras to sell as new as they can be. And you talk about hobby shooters but make no mention of the many pros who have either gone back to film for part of their offerings or at least use it in casual form for personal projects...lots of them.

    So do your self a favor...well, us a favor and just wait and see what happens...and buy some film and use it, if you really do photography at all.

    By the way everyone: This forum is one of *THE* worst in terms of all talk and no action, little brilliant imagery, etc. Think about that, really....
    And isn't it always this way? Negativity and negative attitudes are the life and blood of news, forums and controversy. Me, I just bought another 200 rolls of Tri-X 120 and shoot an average of two per day. Happy days!



 

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