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  1. #111
    CGW
    CGW is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by keithwms View Post
    So Aristophanes, you don't think Fuji would be interested in acquiring the relevant IP and licenses at bargain-basement prices and using it to solidify their own market base? Do you see my point at all?
    Why would they? Just to keep Kodak's ringside seat warm to watch demand shrivel further?

  2. #112
    keithwms's Avatar
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    Yep and... I'm out.
    "Only dead fish follow the stream"

    [APUG Portfolio] [APUG Blog] [Website]

  3. #113
    Aristophanes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by keithwms View Post
    So Aristophanes, you don't think Fuji would be interested in acquiring the relevant IP and licenses at bargain-basement prices and using it to solidify their own market base? Do you see my point at all?
    I think Fuji's got the same or worse demand problems for film than Kodak, but Fuji's other lines are so profitable, and Fuji is a dominant brand in Japan, they may forge on for awhile, dropping less profitable lines and low volume items (E6). Certainly there's no more capital bing put into their R&D. If their coating systems suffer major failures, they'll hesitate to repair them. It's extremely difficult to put $$$ into a product line where the revenues keep declining. Even if all of Kodak's biz transfers to Fuji, they still face declining demand, especially given the state of film in the motion picture industry.

    My understanding (and PE can fill more in on this) is that many of the emulsions and coating systems for Kodak are so complex and tied to even individual engineers and technicians, is that the assets cannot move. That is the coating processes have to stay in Rochester where the remaining mainline plant is. So simply transferring IP appears to be futile. And Fuji is possibly at over-capacity with regards to film product already. Kodak appears to be.

    I think a rump film production capacity could be maintained stateside if a small venture capital operation took it over alongside other analog assets. It's a longshot bet. t will depend,I think, on money from the motion picture industry.

    Right because, you know, buying anything that may reduce in potential size or revenue is just a sucker's bet, correct?
    That's why they have vulture funds. That's what they do.

    Maybe it'll keep going forever until it's use has depreciated negatively, where it's at -50%.
    Check your math.

    So please, dear Oracle, tell us what film's use curve looks like for the next 2 decades...
    Likely similar to the market for brand new film cameras.

    Or for brand new motion picture cameras:

    http://magazine.creativecow.net/arti...ading-to-black

  4. #114
    zsas's Avatar
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    This just gets worse and worse! So if some of the very patents Perez has been talking about for months which are being shopped around are actually "stolen", then they can't be sold till the matter in the below article is settled?

    Apple claims ownership of digital photography patents asserted by Kodak

    http://appleinsider.com/articles/12/...by_kodak_.html
    Andy

  5. #115
    Richard Sintchak (rich815)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Bertilsson View Post
    Some must already be getting their panties in a bunch. At the Freestyle web site, as of this moment, the following items are not in stock anymore:
    Kodak Tri-X 400 24exp
    Kodak TMax P3200 36exp
    Kodak TMax 400 36exp

    I don't know if that means anything, but I have a feeling folks have been buying a lot of film 'just in case'.

    So I just ordered another 50 rolls of Tri-X, and 15 HP5+ too *just in case*... Help! I think my panties are in a bunch.
    Mine are way up my arse. The tri-x and Tmax 400 120 I've been buying up for $3.99 a roll with free amazon prime shipping the last year or so is all gone. I think I got last 25 rolls of Tri x yesterday. Glad I loaded up
    The freezer before this. Couple of years ago got 83 rolls of 120 plus x from a guy who went digital. $90!
    -----------------------

    "Well, my photos are actually much better than they look..."

    Richard S.
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  6. #116
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Fuji is backed by the Japanese government in a way similar to the bailouts offered here in the US to some of the big companies like GM and etc. I don't think that Japan would let Fuji fail!

    Many people at EK know how to make many products. They eliminated tying an individual formula to an individual person years ago when it caused too many problems. The real problem is moving between plants. A Kodak formula would have trouble being made in a Fuji plant. In fact, it took a while to tune a formula between EK plants. And this was in spite of CELS (Committee for Emulsion Lab Standards) which tried to smooth out these differences.

    PE

  7. #117
    Richard Sintchak (rich815)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aristophanes View Post
    I think Fuji's got the same or worse demand problems for film than Kodak, but Fuji's other lines are so profitable, and Fuji is a dominant brand in Japan, they may forge on for awhile, dropping less profitable lines....
    I'm not so sure. The Kinokuniya bookstore here in San Fran carries 2-3 gorgeous Japanese magazines dedicated mostly to older cameras, lenses and film photography. It's niche but it appears to be a big niche based on the quality, thickness and prevalence of these mags. Looks like the intensity of film based photography in Japan vs here is still pretty strong to support such mags. US photo mags are crap.
    -----------------------

    "Well, my photos are actually much better than they look..."

    Richard S.
    Albany, CA (San Francisco bay area)

    My Flickr River of photographs
    http://flickriver.com/photos/rich815...r-interesting/

    My Photography Website
    http://www.lightshadowandtone.com

  8. #118
    clayne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aristophanes View Post
    Check your math.
    Tongue in cheek, dude.


    Likely similar to the market for brand new film cameras.

    Or for brand new motion picture cameras:

    http://magazine.creativecow.net/arti...ading-to-black
    Good thing we've got Ilford, Efke, ADOX, and Fuji to bail us out right?

    As much as you'd love to see film die, plenty of us will still continue shooting until the day *we* actually die.
    Stop worrying about grain, resolution, sharpness, and everything else that doesn't have a damn thing to do with substance.

    http://www.flickr.com/kediwah

  9. #119
    keithwms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by clayne View Post
    plenty of us will still continue shooting until the day *we* actually die.
    +1

    yep!
    "Only dead fish follow the stream"

    [APUG Portfolio] [APUG Blog] [Website]

  10. #120
    clayne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    A Kodak formula would have trouble being made in a Fuji plant.
    Semi-related question PE: Has Kodak ever been contracted out by Fuji to make any of their emulsions or vice-versa? I know it may seem absurd but it wouldn't be the first time a competitor has contracted out another competitor for manufacture or supply of something.
    Stop worrying about grain, resolution, sharpness, and everything else that doesn't have a damn thing to do with substance.

    http://www.flickr.com/kediwah



 

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