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  1. #61
    Poisson Du Jour's Avatar
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    "The filing lists its assets as worth $US5.1bn - but its debts stand at $US6.8bn."

    There is no room to breathe between those figures! And just 18 months to turn their grave (mis)fortunes around? Is there a precedent of any other company having survived with a plan like this? The more I read the more I have to shake my head at the pitiful decisions of the moguls in charge of EK. They dropped the ball big time.

    (http://www.theage.com.au/business/wo...#ixzz1jwV1cp00)
    “The photographer must determine how he wants the finished print to look before he exposes the negative.
    Before releasing the shutter, he must seek 'the flame of recognition,' a sense that the picture would reveal
    the greater mystery of things...more clearly than the eyes see."
    ~Edward Weston, 1922.

  2. #62
    MattKing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poisson Du Jour View Post
    "The filing lists its assets as worth $US5.1bn - but its debts stand at $US6.8bn."

    There is no room to breathe between those figures! And just 18 months to turn their grave (mis)fortunes around? Is there a precedent of any other company having survived with a plan like this? The more I read the more I have to shake my head at the pitiful decisions of the moguls in charge of EK. They dropped the ball big time.

    (http://www.theage.com.au/business/wo...#ixzz1jwV1cp00)
    Bad choice of words between the quotation marks. It should be: "The filing lists its assets as worth $US5.1bn - but its {obligations} stand at $US6.8bn."

    The difference appears small, but it is actually profound.

    Much of the substance of the obligations isn't current debt, but rather long term obligations like employee pensions. The valuation of those long term obligations is a question of expert opinion, and is subject to revision.

    Much of the substance of the assets isn't current accounts payable or cash, but rather estimated valuation of physical assets and Intellectual Property and "goodwill'. Each of these components have been reduced in value considerably due to a number of factors, but mainly market changes.

    It would be very interesting to see what the total value is of the write-downs Kodak has had to take in the valuation of their fixed and long term assets during, for example. Antonio Perez's tenure.
    Matt

    “Photography is a complex and fluid medium, and its many factors are not applied in simple sequence. Rather, the process may be likened to the art of the juggler in keeping many balls in the air at one time!”

    Ansel Adams, from the introduction to The Negative - The New Ansel Adams Photography Series / Book 2

  3. #63
    Stephen Prunier's Avatar
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    Having lived most of my 53 years just a skip and a hop from Eastman Gelatin. I have driven through the heart of their facility, 100's of times. Seeing it go from being a large employer, to just a skeleton of itself is sad. At the same time, I have to say that, because of this companies turmoil over the last several years, I have chosen to use other brands of film 90% of the time. Like others here, I shop at Freestyle because they are committed to supplying us with the best products they can. I also support Ilford, Fuji and some others. As much as I would love to support Kodak 100%. I can't get behind a company that continues to do everything in it's power, to destroy the things that made them great to begin with. I hope that all those who worked hard for Kodak, don't loose all that they worked for, but we all know how these things usually work out

    Like others have already said. I will also be sad to see Kodak gone, if it comes to that. However, I will continue on with film, and all of it's beauty, and wort's

  4. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by Poisson Du Jour View Post
    "The filing lists its assets as worth $US5.1bn - but its debts stand at $US6.8bn."

    There is no room to breathe between those figures! And just 18 months to turn their grave (mis)fortunes around? Is there a precedent of any other company having survived with a plan like this? The more I read the more I have to shake my head at the pitiful decisions of the moguls in charge of EK. They dropped the ball big time.

    (http://www.theage.com.au/business/wo...#ixzz1jwV1cp00)
    Remember that for a business, they have a Balance Sheet. One side of the Balance sheet is Assets which is any real property in addition to liquid assets and inventory. The other side of the balance sheet is Liabilities which is any debt, both long term and short term and added to this is the value of the Stock ownership (investors).
    Dave

    "She's always out making pictures, She's always out making scenes.
    She's always out the window, When it comes to making Dreams.

    It's all mixed up, It's all mixed up, It's all mixed up."

    From It's All Mixed Up by The Cars

  5. #65
    lxdude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aristophanes View Post

    Film loses money and is bleeding revenues at 3x the rate of their other biz.
    You keep saying this. Cite your proof.
    I do use a digital device in my photographic pursuits when necessary.
    When someone rags on me for using film, I use a middle digit, upraised.

  6. #66
    MattKing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aristophanes View Post
    Film loses money and is bleeding revenues at 3x the rate of their other biz.
    Quote Originally Posted by lxdude View Post
    You keep saying this. Cite your proof.
    As far as "losing money", it really all depends on how one accounts for the long-term obligations like pensions, and the asset write-downs.

    Aristophanes appears to be allocating both as costs/liabilities associated with the film division, and therefore properly accounted for there. There is certainly some logic behind that approach.

    And there is no doubt that the film division's revenues are the ones that are "bleeding" the most, because that is where they have revenues that are big enough to matter that much.
    Matt

    “Photography is a complex and fluid medium, and its many factors are not applied in simple sequence. Rather, the process may be likened to the art of the juggler in keeping many balls in the air at one time!”

    Ansel Adams, from the introduction to The Negative - The New Ansel Adams Photography Series / Book 2

  7. #67
    Aristophanes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lxdude View Post
    You keep saying this. Cite your proof.
    This is from the 2011 3Q Report:

    "Third-quarter digital revenue grew 3% excluding that year-ago intellectual property revenue and a 25% decline in the company’s Digital Cameras & Devices business, which reflects the strategic decision this year to trade revenue for improved earnings. Revenue from the core digital growth businesses – Consumer and Commercial Inkjet, Workflow Software & Services, and Packaging Solutions – increased 13%, fueled by 44% revenue growth in Consumer Inkjet printers and ink, and 89% revenue growth in Packaging Solutions. The revenue decline rate for the company’s Film, Photofinishing and Entertainment Group slowed to 10% in the third quarter."

    Go back through the and this pattern is repeated, and, in fact, the losses on the digital side appear to have stabilized.

    Most of the pension obligations were undertaken during the film era. Weight them towards that end of the business and film is the big problem that constrains access to capital for all of Kodak's other operations.

    Much of the debt goes to trying to find sources to replace the revenue lost when consumers ran away from film. Is that good debt or bad? Hard to say. Regardless of whether it lies on the digital side or the film side of the balance sheet, it still doesn't change the fact that film customers have mostly left for digital. And it appears the digital sales actually grew...in a really rough economy. So a restructured Kodak may be able to sell digital products and pay off the debt, but they cannot do that with film products.

  8. #68
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    The pension obligations were NOT mainly from the film era. They are quite equally distributed IMHO based on how many people from film divisions moved over from to digital that were not laid off. Retirees from digital divisions now almost equal those from film divisions when we gather for lunches of the retirees group. Now I grant you, the film retirees are older! But, there are less of them due to attrition. Also, a lot of the income from film has been plowed back into digital. In addition, many things are contracted out nowdays giving a low burden in terms of pensions and benefits.

    As for the figures, Digital sales went up as noted, and film went down, but Digital started with a much smaller base and film started with a much larger base. This still gives film a larger income and a larger profit. Give the numbers, not the percentages!

    PE

  9. #69

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    Losing film before we know how long digital will last.

    The sad thing about film going south is that we still don't know how long digital will last. Even with the new CD's that are suppose to last forever, they could be gone in 40 years. If they do last 200 years, great. It will be a sad day if 40 years from now we find out that digital doesn't last, and all these pictures are not recoverable. That is the only real unknown concerning digital. For me at the age of 60 (in three weeks) it doesn't matter. My days of picture taking will only last another 20 years at most. My VHS video tapes have lasted far longer than they were suppose to, and maybe digital will too. I hope so. Ric.

  10. #70
    Ektagraphic's Avatar
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    Based on what Parez says in the video, I would say the outlook for us is quite grim.
    Helping to save analog photography one exposure at a time



 

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