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  1. #41

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    @Zsas:

    They may not have their photos on facebook, if SOPA is passed here in the states. Also the Internet is so fluid that if your photos are all stored on <insert site here> and the business that is running it goes out of business, bye bye photos! IMHO it's better to have control of your backups yourself. I realize that most people don't back up their photos, and if they don't have them stored on FB or flickr or somewhere, they will be lost.

    Of course, analog photos can be lost in a house fire, so that risk is there for analog photos too.

    ME Super

  2. #42
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    All that is fine and well but cloud, FB, Flikr is going to be the 99% method. You dont have to try to sell me about storage (I have two cloud backups of my PC and a externalHD), but I work in IT, everyone else today (non-Apug'r) just uploads and forgets about it. I doubt if FB, Flikr or the cloud services will find themselves obsolete in 10, 20 years or their jpeg's will magically be unable to be seen, the archive-ability of analog photos is not what I think are it's selling point, its its nature that we really all love and care about. My wife scrap books using here dslr and prints at the pharmacy all her good prints, in my view we are on the same footing, if the house goes up she still wins as her work is backed up thrice and I am up a river, I aint making copies of my negs, ain't worth it, if my negs/prints disappear I just keep shooting
    Andy

  3. #43

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    I also work in IT and have had to restore a system more than once from backups (thank goodness for those!) due to failed hard drive. We may be getting a little off-topic here though. My point is that Facebook, flickr, and the like are not the end-all be-all backup solutions for photos that we analog folk (or even us IT people) would like to see. If Kodak came up with a good quality inexpensive scanning solution (12+ MP from 35mm anyone?) for us film consumers that didn't use proprietary file formats (like the photo CD) for a few bucks a roll at time of developing, and do it along the lines of the "You push the button we do the rest" we would eat it up the way we do film. And for the masses, a decent photo storage site (like flickr) where users could store and share their photos for about $25 USD a year, many people would bite. I would, if only so I could have off-site storage for the non-traditional capture photos I take in addition to the film ones.

    Me personally, I'd like to see Kodak (or at least their film division in whatever form it ends up as) keep and expand their E-6 film offerings, and offer the aforementioned good quality scanning service. Unfortunately that probably won't happen.

    ME Super

  4. #44
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    Amen! With you all the way!
    Andy

  5. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by clayne View Post
    Lowering barrier to entry so low that images are now almost ephemeral and costless has resulted in the "no limits" effect: even more crap that's given less attention to than it ever was before.
    Oh I wish. I had to sit through a laptop slide show of a friend's niece's 3 month trip to somewhere. At 2 hours she she said "its almost over", and an hour and half later and 300 more slides of every snap she shot for 3 months, it ended just before I was about to put the shotgun in my mouth.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne View Post
    Oh I wish. I had to sit through a laptop slide show of a friend's niece's 3 month trip to somewhere. At 2 hours she she said "its almost over", and an hour and half later and 300 more slides of every snap she shot for 3 months, it ended just before I was about to put the shotgun in my mouth.
    Right. Your response is that you devalued the memory of the experience and, I assume, a lot of the photographs just based on sheer quantity. Because of the ease and lack of cost to make them, the producers of the images just pump them out and the consumers of them fall asleep by 20 images in - because already 20 images is too much.

    That's the funny part though, editing (not screwing around in Photoshop, but selection) is so incredibly important to how people react to the images.
    Stop worrying about grain, resolution, sharpness, and everything else that doesn't have a damn thing to do with substance.

    http://www.flickr.com/kediwah

  7. #47

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    Wayne
    Oh I wish. I had to sit through a laptop slide show of a friend's niece's 3 month trip to somewhere. At 2 hours she she said "its almost over", and an hour and half later and 300 more slides of every snap she shot for 3 months, it ended just before I was about to put the shotgun in my mouth.
    clayne
    Right. Your response is that you devalued the memory of the experience and, I assume, a lot of the photographs just based on sheer quantity. Because of the ease and lack of cost to make them, the producers of the images just pump them out and the consumers of them fall asleep by 20 images in - because already 20 images is too much.
    I agree. About 3 years before my return to film, we took a trip to Walt Disney World with another family. We ended up coming home with about 1,000 digital pictures of the trip. It is nice to have them but not to go through them and show people every single one of them. Nowhere near all of them will end up in photo albums or shared with others. Only the best ones go in the albums or get uploaded to social media sites.

    Contrast the 1,000 pictures of the Disney trip with about 4 rolls of film shot on a trip to Yellowstone. A much higher percentage of the film shots were keepers. Its these pictures, of the trip to Yellowstone, that triggered my return to film. And not just film, slide film specifically.

    ME Super

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by clayne View Post
    The deeper issue is the treatment or cultural valuation of the photograph as a visual medium rather than the actual medium of the photograph. Lowering barrier to entry so low that images are now almost ephemeral and costless has resulted in the "no limits" effect: even more crap that's given less attention to than it ever was before.


    Nope, I don't think the barrier was lowered... I think the bar was just cleanly dropped!
    All that really matters in the end is the image, not what your using to create it.

  9. #49
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    Kodak is already in bankruptcy, so killing off pensions may actually be on the table.

    Kodak doesn't need to analyze old products to find out what was in them, as they already have all of the files. Also, an Azo replacement is already produced.

    Some of the products have changed because some components are no longer available. I've heard tell that Techpan's base material was discontinued, and HIE can't be made on the current coating equipment. (One of the film store guys said that Fuji isn't offering Acros 400 in 120 because one of the component coating chemicals is now banned in Japan because it's too toxic.)

    So some things won't be back, ever.

    How can Kodak film survive? I honestly don't know the future, because it depends on the consumer base. There are two main film groups: commercial and consumer. Commercial is the motion picture film industry, and consumer is everyone else. Let's say the commercial line dries up because there's a cheap RED 80Mp camera, and all of the big cinemas go to all digital, no film. How much demand is there for the consumer side of film? Is that enough to keep Kodak's coating machines profitable? I doubt it.

    I shoot LF, and I don't have the storage space, anywhere at all, to freeze 8x10 film. So when Kodak says goodbye to LF color, that's it for me. There is no Fuji LF color on the local shelves. None. I will get what is in stock at the local shop, and then there will be nothing after that. It will be B&W in LF, unless I build a color seperation camera on my own. Not out of the question, but it also isn't easy.

    The Kodak board had some blue-sky thoughts, too, and hired Perez. Sorry, wrong strategy. Kodak invented the boat, and then missed the boat, end of story.

  10. #50
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    what they really need is to create the an eye
    like the brother from another planet had ...

    or a bluetooth chip in the back of our heads so we can all do "thoughgraphy"

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