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  1. #121

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aristophanes View Post
    Again, straight from Kodak, no interpretation:

    "Due to changes in technology and customer preferences, the market for traditional film and paper products and services is in decline. Our success depends in part on our ability to manage the decline of the market for these traditional products by continuing to reduce our cost structure to maintain profitability."

    Total net sales of Kodak FPEG:

    2008 = $ 2,987
    2009 = $ 2,257
    2010 = $ 1,767
    2011 = $ 1,131 (to Q3 only)
    And just leave it at that. The rest IS your interpretation. It might be right, but it's still an interpretation. Need I quote this?

    Within 24 months the cinema industry will have switched from about 70/30 film/digital to 99/1 digital film (yes...the transition is happening that fast).
    That's not a fact, again, it's your conjecture. We all know Kodak is in trouble. Companies in good health don't file for Ch. 11. I'm all for facts. When you interject stuff like the second quote, it gets real tiresome, especially when you go around saying, 'If you don't like the facts, don't read them.'

  2. #122
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    Analysis by armchair CEOs is pointless. Re Aristophenes
    Total net sales of Kodak FPEG
    , Key word here is NET. Its quite possible that unit sales volume is up, gross sales are up (and Freestyle are correct) and net sales are decreasing. All can be correct simultaneously as NET is GROSS less COSTS. But What costs? How can any of us know how Kodak decide to chop up their operating costs into the various groups? Accountants can move costs around within a company so the analysis is irrelevant. I know, because I work for a multinational, and they choose where in the group the profits are shown, and which parts of the group barely break even. All it takes is a change to some inter-company accounting and costs can be moved from one place to another within the group.

    The only things that matter is the number of feet that walk through the camera shops, or people who buy film products and that some enterprising people continue to think they can make a living by extracting some profit from a film business. As has been said earlier, Fuji, Ilford, Foma etc seem to be doing OK, so there is enough potential business to keep a small industry not only going, but increasing to the point that investment is realistic. As to film cameras, you CAN still buy new film cameras of many different types. Its a microscopic market at the moment as the market is flooded with perfectly useable second handers - certainly in 35mm. However, the doomongers should take heed of the success e.g. of Ilfords pinhole camera. I think a few people have been somewhat surprised by the take up, and methinks that the tooling costs will be amortized somewhat faster than anticipated, if they haven't been already! And, how great it is to see Ilford sponsoring a "Pinhole Festival" in Edinburgh in the coming month.
    During the festival over 300 children from local Edinburgh primary schools will take part in pinhole photography workshops with photographer, Kenny Bean. The workshops will be held each morning at the Festival Base in the Fletcher Building.
    That's Kids + Real Film Cameras. Bring It On!

  3. #123

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    Grrr ever consider both sides might be right? kodak sales can be down while overall film sales are up . Kodak is not the only maufacturer if film stock. I myself shoot foma and some fuji but no kodak.

  4. #124

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    Last edited by jnanian; 02-10-2012 at 11:11 AM. Click to view previous post history. Reason: dup

  5. #125

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    Quote Originally Posted by LarryP View Post
    Grrr ever consider both sides might be right? kodak sales can be down while overall film sales are up . Kodak is not the only maufacturer if film stock. I myself shoot foma and some fuji but no kodak.

    what larryp said ...

    ... kodak isn't the only analog "player" out there

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr rusty View Post
    Its quite possible that unit sales volume is up, gross sales are up (and Freestyle are correct) and net sales are decreasing. All can be correct simultaneously as NET is GROSS less COSTS. But What costs? How can any of us know how Kodak decide to chop up their operating costs into the various groups? Accountants can move costs around within a company so the analysis is irrelevant.
    Exactly right, and I tried to make that point in this thread or another about a week ago. But, you know, some people believe that pasting in the same partial info over and over is somehow contributing to the thread.

    If I were Perez, I'd seek ways to bundle losses into the sector that I am euthanizing. If he's trying to make his printer project look good, he'll do whatever he can to conceal the fact that it is that venture and not film that is pushing EK over the edge.

    We will all know the truth about what Perez did with EK, and soon. Patience.
    "Only dead fish follow the stream"

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  7. #127

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    Quote Originally Posted by fotch View Post
    Quote from Forbes

    "The one silver lining is that Kodak will continue producing color and black-and-white film, news that should make traditional photographers happy."

    I am very happy
    +1. While Ilford's PanF Plus and FP4 long ago became my films of choice (read:exclusive) for my medium and large format black and white work, Tri-X has always had a virtual lock on my 35mm black and white shooting. I have yet to find a completely acceptable substitute (and, yes, HP5 is a Great Film...but it is not Tri-X). Given the diminishing numbers of transparency shooters out there in photo-land - and the (non-existent) film choices available - would we be correct in assuming the "continued production" of color materials, refers to EK's C41 offerings?

  8. #128

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    I would beg to differ at least to a small degree with the assertion that the number of transparency shooters is declining. I see a lot of XPro slide film scans on flickr and the like from the Lomo crowd (remember, most XPro is E-6 souped in C-41, not the other way around). And some of us are getting back into slide film shooting (there's nothing like a slide on a lightbox or projected!) and presentation. So while the number of traditional transparency shooters may be shrinking, the number of xpro transparency shooters is growing. Go Lomo crowd! Shoot enough E-6 to keep it viable for the rest of us traditional E-6 shooters!

    ME Super

  9. #129

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    Imagine you are on vacation in a nice place with many visually engaging attributes that are worthy of pointing a camera at. You are strolling downtown with your significant other and she wants to go shop for a few hours. You decide that shopping is not for you, set a meeting time and place and look for a coffee shop to have a seat and read the paper. You contact who seems to be a local and ask where the best place is for that, not Starbucks perhaps. The enthusiastic informant quips, "Oh, just go to the DarkRoom, two blocks that way on your left"....

    You show up and there it is, a hip and cool coffee shop with photo-esque motif, safelights for light fixtures, all kinds of cool photo nostaligia as decor, bean-bag chairs, photo-centric coffee table books abound...you get the idea. And next to the counter where the barista is chugging away at making you a latte with "2-Stops" of espresso, is another counter....cameras for rental and purchase. In the case are not dusty old Practicas and 120 folders, but shiny, colorful and whimsical renovations of what were garage sale paperweights. There is a stable of Blads, some with really funny stickers covering them, others with bright red and blue leatherette, all in perfect working condition having been gone over by David Odess. Then there are Leicas, Nikons, Canons and several others.....all mechanically sound and freshly adapted to be the new age of film photography, the fun part. Some of these beautifully restored cameras ar for sale too, not eBay level dirt cheap, but surely affordabe by most. You notice lots of black and white and color film behind the counter in a cool fridge that has been painted and stenciled in well known quotes by famous photographers...you are fully engaged now....

    You have two hours to kill, you ask the person at the counter "So I can rent one of these, but where can I get the film developed?" The Barista replies, "The color we send out, but the black and white can be done right here in our darkroom, you can even do it your self and print it too." The gentleman rents a Leica, had always wanted to try one.

    The next day, he asks his wife if he can have two hours to go print his film...he is hooked and buys the camera of his dreams.

    This business is my five year plan, to not only bring back film based workshops to one of the most art and talent filled places on Earth, but to provide a place where you can sip a cup of "Grade-3" while you look at a well worn copy of "Bare Witness" by Gordon Parks or rent a leopard skinned Nikon F2 and develop the film your self. Many of those used cameras out there are like old Beach Cruisers, they can be not only restored, but made cool, hip and fun.

    This is what film photography needs in order to survive, to shake the cobwebs off of it and freshen it up, to be cool again and just plain fun.

    This too, can be a reality...
    Last edited by PKM-25; 02-10-2012 at 12:39 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  10. #130

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    Good idea. I agree. Hipster-ville is where film can grow.
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