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  1. #51
    dehk's Avatar
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    Erm, Long Live Tri X?
    - Derek
    [ Insert meaningless camera listing here ]

  2. #52
    Scott_Sheppard's Avatar
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    No where in any document supplied by Kodak do they say they are making money on film.

    Red this...

    http://www.kodak.com/ek/US/en/Kodak_...ortunities.htm

    The posting in the BJF and the completely copied (word for word) story from the BJF posted on Forbes is one of the most non journalistic POS PR spins I have read in many many months.

    Some one show me a document that is not BS PR spin ??

    It looks like true reporting is gone along side with Kodachrome !!

    Your thoughts ??
    Scott Sheppard
    Inside Analog Photo
    http://www.insideanalogphoto.com

  3. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott_Sheppard View Post
    No where in any document supplied by Kodak do they say they are making money on film..........
    On the other hand, they are in Chapter 11 and are in the process of restructuring the company. If they were going to end film production, wouldn't they do it now?

    Jim B.

  4. #54
    CGW
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott_Sheppard View Post
    No where in any document supplied by Kodak do they say they are making money on film.

    Red this...

    http://www.kodak.com/ek/US/en/Kodak_...ortunities.htm

    The posting in the BJF and the completely copied (word for word) story from the BJF posted on Forbes is one of the most non journalistic POS PR spins I have read in many many months.

    Some one show me a document that is not BS PR spin ??

    It looks like true reporting is gone along side with Kodachrome !!

    Your thoughts ??
    Kodak’s continuing consumer products and services will include:

    The traditional film capture and photographic paper business, which continues to provide high-quality and innovative products and solutions to consumers, photographers, retailers, photofinishers and professional labs.


    Colbert's notion of "truthiness" is shot through most discussions on film profitability at Kodak here on APUG. Better yet, Ken Kesey's "But it's the truth even if it didn't happen," seems equally appropriate.

  5. #55
    Scott_Sheppard's Avatar
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    Don't get me wrong, I want Kodak to make analong products for the next 200 years, but can someone please do at least a half ass job on reporting instead of just spoon feeding everybody a line of PR BS ??
    Scott Sheppard
    Inside Analog Photo
    http://www.insideanalogphoto.com

  6. #56
    CGW
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott_Sheppard View Post
    Don't get me wrong, I want Kodak to make analong products for the next 200 years, but can someone please do at least a half ass job on reporting instead of just spoon feeding everybody a line of PR BS ??
    Same here but there's also denial that demand crashed as well as evasive reporting.

  7. #57

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    As far as I know, "investigative Journalists" can't just waltz right into Kodak Park without a pass. So that leaves what we get from them in terms of press releases for news and updates. The main thrust of this one is that they are nixing digicams and keeping film going, at least for the moment...

    For example: Kodak announces it is filing C-11.....do you have any reason to doubt that?

    Sure, some forms of this release have some liberties taken depending on source, but we all get the main idea...

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott_Sheppard View Post
    Don't get me wrong, I want Kodak to make analong products for the next 200 years, but can someone please do at least a half ass job on reporting instead of just spoon feeding everybody a line of PR BS ??

  8. #58
    keithwms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CGW View Post
    Not talking about film cameras. Had a chance to play with a Sony NEX-7 with its killer EVF. It won't be long before OLED viewfinders rule. No prophetic statements necessary.
    Yeah, I wasn't talking about film cameras either!
    "Only dead fish follow the stream"

    [APUG Portfolio] [APUG Blog] [Website]

  9. #59
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Kodak just announced about 400 more layoffs in addition to the ones related to the inkjet business reported earlier.

    Xerox also reported layoffs are coming.

    PE

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by PKM-25 View Post
    As far as I know, "investigative Journalists" can't just waltz right into Kodak Park without a pass. So that leaves what we get from them in terms of press releases for news and updates. The main thrust of this one is that they are nixing digicams and keeping film going, at least for the moment...

    For example: Kodak announces it is filing C-11.....do you have any reason to doubt that?

    Sure, some forms of this release have some liberties taken depending on source, but we all get the main idea...
    Ignore the press releases. They are spin, by definition.

    Read the financials. Film is sunk cost so incurs no more debt. And it may be likely that operating costs are less than sales.

    But revenues are still in free fall. That means that Kodak is producing and selling less and less film every minute measures YOY.

    No one is making new cameras in any volume. No labs—the total backbone of industrial film production—are opening.

    Within 24 months the cinema industry will have switched from about 70/30 film/digital to 99/1 digital film (yes...the transition is happening that fast).

    That means less customers. We can se it happening right before us when people file threads here about not being able to get I and y, about rising prices, about discontinued z, and about no labs left in their regions (1 left, US$25/roll, no E6).

    If you take Kodak's bottom line and add in the penalties not yet erased by pensions and medical costs, plus debt servicing, then all of Kodak's divisions lose money, including film. That is the spin. If you actually apportion those costs to historic capital allocations, then film loses far, far more than the other divisions, especially on the pension side. The $30 million severance hit for dropping digicams is nothing compared to the $700 million fro paying their pension obligations left over from the film era.

    It is typical of companies in Ch. 11 to continue to promote profits in a division up for sale. If you read the mission statement of Kodak, there is no room for film now. That's in the financials. And the last reorganization made it clear the film and entertainment group is being prepped for sale.

    It's all about the gross revenues in a shareholder/creditor driven company. Everything else anyone says is fluff. Public companies cannot have revenue-losing divisions dependent on third party cameras being manufactured to put your product in....of which there are effectively none.

    The best hope for Kodak film is for a private equity investment group who have a game plan to change that dynamic buys the film and entertainment groups and focusses the product in the niche it deserves.



 

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