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  1. #91
    Colin Corneau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aristophanes View Post
    ...film competes not on quality, but on nostalgia and some artificial "spiritual" thingy....What does not work is people trying to live vicariously in grandpa's era using product from grandpa's closet. You're living in the past rehashing arguments long since lost while film and film product demand withers away to nothing because it is not being promoted using the right tools or ideas.
    Why on earth are you here?
    "Never criticize someone until you've walked a mile in their shoes. That way, you're a mile away and you've got their shoes."

    MY BLOG - www.reservedatalltimes.com
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  2. #92
    Aristophanes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin Corneau View Post
    Why on earth are you here?
    Voice of reason

  3. #93

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    Well, I understand the value of digital capture in astrophotography. Telescopes need remote control, often from hundreds or thousands of miles away. Multiple scope arrays are used for synchronized images.
    There are ways of supercooling the sensors, etc. But once you start needing lenses and mirrors that add up to hundreds of tons, I don't think
    we're talking about conventional photography. That's more than I can carry in my bag. I don't think a billion dollar "tripod" counts either. And while I enjoy NGS, their images are generally schmuk and they're just
    about the last folks I'd look to in terms of a quality standard. And I'd sure
    hate to see anything that Aristophanes considers a real darkroom. Mine
    ain't all that fancy, but people around here with two or three million dollar
    digital setups can't do what I do way more efficiently and way sharper too. I know some folks with some very serious industrial gear that have a
    minimum 40K setup charge per image that do remarkable digital printing
    (yeah, 40K not $40), but they prefer to work with 8X10 FILM originals.
    So I really don't know when it's appropriate to ignore a mosquito on a forum like this one or to reach for the repellant. I thought that at least on
    APUG one could get away from the endless techie propaganda. Film has
    almost a two hundred year head start on R&D, so ain't exactly something primitive.

  4. #94
    Aristophanes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DREW WILEY View Post
    Well, I understand the value of digital capture in astrophotography. Telescopes need remote control, often from hundreds or thousands of miles away. Multiple scope arrays are used for synchronized images.
    There are ways of supercooling the sensors, etc. But once you start needing lenses and mirrors that add up to hundreds of tons, I don't think
    we're talking about conventional photography. That's more than I can carry in my bag. I don't think a billion dollar "tripod" counts either. And while I enjoy NGS, their images are generally schmuk and they're just
    about the last folks I'd look to in terms of a quality standard. And I'd sure
    hate to see anything that Aristophanes considers a real darkroom. Mine
    ain't all that fancy, but people around here with two or three million dollar
    digital setups can't do what I do way more efficiently and way sharper too. I know some folks with some very serious industrial gear that have a
    minimum 40K setup charge per image that do remarkable digital printing
    (yeah, 40K not $40), but they prefer to work with 8X10 FILM originals.
    So I really don't know when it's appropriate to ignore a mosquito on a forum like this one or to reach for the repellant. I thought that at least on
    APUG one could get away from the endless techie propaganda. Film has
    almost a two hundred year head start on R&D, so ain't exactly something primitive.
    If anything, film and cameras have been the relentless "techie" propaganda machine in the history of all things tech, especially in the hands of Joe Consumer. Only autos might vie for that crown, one around long before digital processing. Kodak and Fuji have the all-time record as "techie" propaganda masters. It is film that had the 200 year propaganda head start. You're raging against yourself.

    I never said that film is primitive. It went to the Moon, didn't it? What I did say, was that assumptions about what film is and digital is not expressed in this thread are fundamentally wrong. Film's once prodigious technical edge is eroding and will soon be non-existent. There are even non-linear sensors in the works, silicon with DR greater than film, zone ISO control, and so on.

    And those sensors are still considered analog devices. And that tech works its way down into what people will hold in their hands.

    What's the place for analog photography in all this? Is it using stuff from closets and eBay using freezers full of nostalgia? Or is someone going to make new product for a niche process to keep the coating machines rolling? A bunch of hipsters and 8x10 shooters are not a large enough market and distract from the core issue of production volume.

  5. #95
    richard ide's Avatar
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    " A Funny Thing Happened On The Way To The Forum"
    Richard

    Why are there no speaker jacks on a stereo camera?

  6. #96
    richard ide's Avatar
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    Breaking News!!
    This Just in. Batman caught Robin selling guano outside the Batcave.

    And this has as much relevance as some of the spouting in this and another infamous thread.
    Richard

    Why are there no speaker jacks on a stereo camera?

  7. #97
    SuzanneR's Avatar
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    Good grief... the whole digital vs. analog thing was put to bed here (in the soap box) long ago, it's a tedious and tired back and forth of nothing. The OP pointed to an interesting article about folks from different areas preferring a to work with analog tools, typewriters and such... so let's get back to the topic at hand.

  8. #98
    MDR
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    Are we apuggers going mad?

    Since Kodak's financial troubles it seems that apug has split in two camps the "ostrichs" and the "prophets of doom" and as soon as the words analogue,digital or financial problems appear in a thread the two camps start to fight each other. APUG is the place to discuss analogue photography and to cherish the wonders of gelatine or paper/glass based analogue captures devices. And those posts constantly declaring the end of film photography or Kodak feel somewhat wrong to me. Come on people let's enjoy und use film and analogue photography as long as we can. If those musicians on the Titanic were able to play until they were drowning, we analogue users should support film and maybe be a little blind to the slow death of our favourite photographic medium.

    Dominik

  9. #99
    michaelbsc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDR View Post
    Since Kodak's financial troubles it seems that apug has split in two camps the "ostrichs" and the "prophets of doom" .....
    I, for one, would like to publicly apologize for my contribution to the breakdown.

    In the beginning I thought we'd engage in reasonable discussion. Duh!

    I do think the conversation has merit, but maybe the nerves are just too raw here.

    MB
    Michael Batchelor
    Industrial Informatics, Inc.
    www.industrialinformatics.com

    The camera catches light. The photographer catches life.

  10. #100

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aristophanes View Post
    What does not work is people trying to live vicariously in grandpa's era using product from grandpa's closet.
    If grandpa's products do not blow the highlights, give nicer colours and are kept in a medium that is proven to last in time as opposed to unsure hard drives then what is wrong with using them?

    What does not work is people trying to adopt vicariously what the companies are trying to sell them, since a new digital camera is always coming around and you get to spend and spend while my film camera can be 20 years old with no problems at all.

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