Switch to English Language Passer en langue française Omschakelen naar Nederlandse Taal Wechseln Sie zu deutschen Sprache Passa alla lingua italiana
Members: 71,821   Posts: 1,581,722   Online: 1043
      
Page 6 of 12 FirstFirst 123456789101112 LastLast
Results 51 to 60 of 117
  1. #51

    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Shooter
    35mm
    Posts
    156
    Quote Originally Posted by jscott View Post
    That's an excellent point. Remember back in the 1980's when those computer-generated drum machines came out to replace real drummers? The manufacturers soon found out that perfect note spacing sounded dead and uninteresting, so they programmed in a human-like randomness. Still, it doesn't sound like a human drummer; it's a computerized approximation of one. You won't notice the difference on a galloping horse.

    And at some level, perhaps smaller than you can easily see, Photoshopped images don't look like film photography, they are just an approximation of it. A very elaborate and increasingly accurate approximation, but an approximation nonetheless.
    Very interesting point in the whole films vs digital debate.
    The randomness of the drummer is an equivalent to the randomness of the grain (as opposed to the standard structure of the pixels) which in addition to the non blown highlights gives me a warm feeling whenever I look at a photograph shot on film.

  2. #52
    clayne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    San Francisco, CA | Kuching, MY | Jakarta, ID
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    2,838
    Images
    57
    Let's also not forget about the full signal bandwidth per color channel issues as well. Or the fact that interpolation is heavily used at the sensor level to fill in missing color information that wasn't originally captured, by design.

    Aside from all that the non-linearity is a big win for me for the analog side of things.

    And hey, what do you know, tape does the exact same thing - saturates.
    Stop worrying about grain, resolution, sharpness, and everything else that doesn't have a damn thing to do with substance.

    http://www.flickr.com/kediwah

  3. #53
    Aristophanes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Shooter
    35mm
    Posts
    505
    Images
    15
    Quote Originally Posted by clayne View Post
    Let's also not forget about the full signal bandwidth per color channel issues as well.
    Does that include white balance cross all spectrum light sources?

  4. #54
    Poisson Du Jour's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Vic., Australia.
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    3,681
    Images
    15
    Quote Originally Posted by clayne View Post
    [...]
    Aside from all that the non-linearity is a big win for me for the analog side of things.
    [...]

    Non-linearity (of film) is one solid reason why Ilfochrome photographs printed with such striking depth of colour and strength. Then came a "ground-breaking process": digital files printed to Ilfochrome media. Really, this stuff never came across to me as having anywhere near the punch of film. Same, too, with digital enlargers printing to traditional photographic papers, which now seems to be a vogue movement.
    “The photographer must determine how he wants the finished print to look before he exposes the negative.
    Before releasing the shutter, he must seek 'the flame of recognition,' a sense that the picture would reveal
    the greater mystery of things...more clearly than the eyes see."
    ~Edward Weston, 1922.

  5. #55
    patrickjames's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    743
    I like it, I use it. Simple. I like fountain pens, tube stereos, record players, typewriters (would be cool to find an old one, I have been looking) and film cameras. I also like to make things with my hands. I don't particularly care what anyone else does and I don't feel superior or inferior either way. I do these things because I like the organic nature of them. I enjoy the process.

  6. #56
    Toffle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Point Pelee, ON, Canada
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    1,804
    Images
    126
    I typed all my university essays on a 1923 model Underwood that still lives under my stairs. (That might be giving a little bit away about my age.)
    As it turns out, it is a fine photographic subject to boot.
    Tom, on Point Pelee, Canada

    Ansel Adams had the Zone System... I'm working on the points system. First I points it here, and then I points it there...

    http://tom-overton-images.weebly.com


  7. #57
    JBrunner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Shooter
    35mm
    Posts
    6,784
    All this gives rise to an interesting question. If the market hadn't interrupted, where would analog technology be today and in the future if the full weight of research and development had been applied to it? There have been steady advances to be sure, but nothing like it could have been. What do you think?

  8. #58
    Aristophanes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Shooter
    35mm
    Posts
    505
    Images
    15
    Quote Originally Posted by JBrunner View Post
    All this gives rise to an interesting question. If the market hadn't interrupted, where would analog technology be today and in the future if the full weight of research and development had been applied to it? There have been steady advances to be sure, but nothing like it could have been. What do you think?
    Interesting question.

    For emulsions the law of diminishing returns had settled in. As can be sen with the APS format, innovation on further densities was neither economical nor even possible. The cost of processing was the problem. There were experiments with metal films, but at that point you are close to a charged silicon wafer, which is much less costly to manufacture. Remember: a sensor is an analog device. Photolithography with silicon is very similar to emulsions. Both only organize photon energy.

    Also, the resolving power of optics is a barrier in its own way.

  9. #59

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Shooter
    35mm
    Posts
    965
    Images
    101
    Quote Originally Posted by JBrunner View Post
    All this gives rise to an interesting question. If the market hadn't interrupted, where would analog technology be today and in the future if the full weight of research and development had been applied to it?
    Probably not very different from what we have now. Camera technology was already trending in the direction of more electronics, more automation. So there was already a push to refine features like autofocus, autoexposure, etc. Likely the cutting-edge film technology would be driven by professional needs, the movie business, just as it is now. Some stuff might be cheaper, easier to get if the market was bigger. Some products not discontinued. Lenses? How much better could they get really? We've got APO, multicoating, computer-aided design, ED glass, whatever you want to pay for. The peak years for film sales were the late 90s; it's not like we've missed decades of research.

  10. #60
    clayne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    San Francisco, CA | Kuching, MY | Jakarta, ID
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    2,838
    Images
    57
    It should also be noted that within the realm of cinema, they're not even close to the limits of the 135 medium. Most films are 3-4 perf, some even 2-perf. We've got IMAX with the 70mm format, frame similar to 645, which is like watching a movie in medium format (and why it's so visually incredible) and the rest shooting 135 at half-frame resolution.

    Sure, overall runtime per mag would be reduced, taking/projecting cameras would have to make use of it, and film costs would double (of which they are not hugely significant in a major motion picture), but additional quality is already available in the currently used medium/format. Even with the non-full-frame usage, the quality of each frame is still quite high.

    It's not like these things weren't tried before either, they most definitely were - and were also successful in their intent (higher quality). But it was mechanical projection issues and the introduction of finer stocks which reduced the demand for it.

    My point? The already existing 135 half-frame cinema format is more than enough for most people as it is *now*.
    Stop worrying about grain, resolution, sharpness, and everything else that doesn't have a damn thing to do with substance.

    http://www.flickr.com/kediwah



 

APUG PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Contact Us  |  Support Us!  |  Advertise  |  Site Terms  |  Archive  —   Search  |  Mobile Device Access  |  RSS  |  Facebook  |  Linkedin