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  1. #171
    Aristophanes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by railwayman3 View Post
    Certainly the long-lens 35mm was the camera for sports and action and the other uses which you mention, and these are the photographers which everyone sees and thinks of from their visibilty on TV coverage. A bank of 20-30 photographers can soon look like "thousands" in these circumstances. Photographers for magazines such as the Nat Geographic certainly used many pictures, but it is basically only one magazine.

    I could argue that, for every one of those, there were many less visible photographers using manual cameras....studios, portraiture, advertising, product photography, commercial, industrial, police, pathology and medical (the ones which I personally dealt with), in every city in the land.

    I'm not arguing, it is a matter of opinion and personal experience, but I think it is too easy to present things as a "fact" to support one's own views, rather than as a suggestion or discussion point.
    I was just trying to point out that top-tier Canon and Nikon cameras were equipped with advanced features in order to capitalize on the very lucrative pro photojournalist market where the employer paid for everything but demand the shot. The publishing market was huge. My hometown paper in a city of 600,000 back in the 1980's had something like 16 staff photogs and their own full featured lab. Their archive has an uncounted # of slides and negatives. And there were 2 papers plus a weekly alternative and some more regional offerings.

    Pro cameras were not developed for the "prosumer" but for the real "pro" as the product marketing states accurately. Yes, prosumers rode the coattails, but did not drive development. More than that, Canon subsidized photojournalists and Nikon involved them in product development. They were extensively used in ad campaigns (YouTube) where the pro photog becomes a celebrity in his own way (always a guy) and uses the advanced features; that's called downselling (aka pimping in adspeak). That still doesn't mean the feature was developed for prosumers; it just means they take a pro feature and shove it down a price point to buff up margins. It's still done today in many product categories (autos, golf clubs).

    A lot of this was tied to the increased use of positive film. Kodak and Fuji loved things like bracketing because it meant more shots. It became part of their financial profile for the product. Positive film's narrow latitude pushed exposure accuracy into the camera on a more automated basis, spurring the # of shots per opportunity. Excellent for biz if you sell film. The perfect positive reinforcement feedback loop driving margins. It's a business model unto itself and part of the synergy between the camera makers and the film manufacturers.

    That's all broken now.

  2. #172
    CGW
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    Quote Originally Posted by railwayman3 View Post
    In my work experience of dealing with pros. most of them used manual equipment, e.g. Hasselblad, Rollei and other MF, or LF Linhofs, etc. The extras which you mention were mainly directed at the advanced amateur...developments marketed to those who liked to have the latest gizmos to impress their friends. Rather like the massive digital cameras with lenses like elephants trunks which some like to sport these days. (along with their huge SUV's which never go futher off-road than the supermarket car park.....)
    Uncertain whether latent sour grapes, angst or isolation explains this view. It's wide of the mark. Though there was no shortage "gizmos" for amateurs 10-15 years ago, Canon and Nikon pro level bodies and lenses weren't targeted at punters. Few of them could afford the stuff. Something like the F5 or late run EOS pro bodies carried features that made them adaptable to the owners' needs, not least being AF and metering/flash systems suited to the spontaneity of sports/nature/PJ shooting.

  3. #173

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    al
    Quote Originally Posted by CGW View Post
    Uncertain whether latent sour grapes, angst or isolation explains this view. It's wide of the mark. Though there was no shortage "gizmos" for amateurs 10-15 years ago, Canon and Nikon pro level bodies and lenses weren't targeted at punters. Few of them could afford the stuff. Something like the F5 or late run EOS pro bodies carried features that made them adaptable to the owners' needs, not least being AF and metering/flash systems suited to the spontaneity of sports/nature/PJ shooting.
    No need for rudeness. I have, and enjoy using regularly, all the photo equipment I need for my requirements (which doesn't involve posing or impressing anyone). (For that matter, I also have the cars which I need and enjoy, and actually have no interest in them beyond reliability and fitness for purpose). I don't know what you mean by isolation...I've just sent out invitations for 284 guests for my wedding later in the year. Life's good, and, come to that, I wonder why I'm bothering being here... I thought it was to have friendly (and perhaps provocative) discussions with similar open-minded analog enthusiasts.

  4. #174
    CGW
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    Quote Originally Posted by railwayman3 View Post
    al

    No need for rudeness. I have, and enjoy using regularly, all the photo equipment I need for my requirements (which doesn't involve posing or impressing anyone). (For that matter, I also have the cars which I need and enjoy, and actually have no interest in them beyond reliability and fitness for purpose). I don't know what you mean by isolation...I've just sent out invitations for 284 guests for my wedding later in the year. Life's good, and, come to that, I wonder why I'm bothering being here... I thought it was to have friendly (and perhaps provocative) discussions with similar open-minded analog enthusiasts.
    You were slinging around a pretty big tar brush for someone so supposedly so "friendly."

  5. #175

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    Quote Originally Posted by CGW View Post
    You were slinging around a pretty big tar brush for someone so supposedly so "friendly."
    I'll give you the last word then...I'm getting the impression you're so deep into putting forward your own inflexible views, that you can't distinguish when something is said "tongue in cheek". Or did I touch a nerve somewhere.....

  6. #176
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    These threads have such nauseatingly predictable trajectories.
    "Only dead fish follow the stream"

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  7. #177

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    Yup. It's like an auto accident. Backs traffic up for miles on the interstate/motorway/autobahn so people can stare at it as they drive by, even though all lanes are open.

    The Slide Curmudgeon
    ME Super

    Shoot more film.
    There are eight ways to put a slide into a projector tray. Seven of them are wrong.

  8. #178

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    Quote Originally Posted by keithwms View Post
    These threads have such nauseatingly predictable trajectories.
    I agree....and I plead guilty to have allowed myself to be drawn into this one. Shan't make the same mistake again...I'm more than happy to engage in discussion, even if it's provocative, feisty, tongue-in-cheek or even a bit of humorous "stirring". But it seems that there are members who are so inflexible that they think that personal rudeness is good. Just off to put "ignore" on postings from the two involved.

  9. #179

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    Are they stopping all slide film or just three of them?
    Surly like I said in another thread, it's the LF photographers who are most let down here, as I'm guessing demand for those films has dropped less dramatically, but I'm sad because I love to cross process Ektachrome.
    How expensive can it be to go on making this stuff if they still make Movie transparency film?

    And is it me or are Kodak the worst for dropping stuff? Look at the range Fuji still makes.

  10. #180
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    ME your analogy is so perfect!!!

    Perhaps we should just start a "Waaaaah" thread where people can go and say all the same things about Kodak over and over to their hearts' content and solicit empathy.
    "Only dead fish follow the stream"

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