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  1. #201
    Aristophanes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowie View Post
    You are right. But not only the lack of demand is a problem. Cost is a problem. Kodak is too big for the market. Market is smaller than in the past, BUT THERE IS AND STILL WILL BE THE MARKET. I am 100% sure that kodachrome and ektachrome would be profitable, if costs were fitted into smaller company.
    Kodachrome was in a league unto itself due to the complex uniqueness of processing and the cost. It required substantially more volume than it was selling to stay economically viable.

    There is too much production capacity, too many companies, and too few customers. The market is something like 95% smaller now, and still shrinking. Sadly, there has been no consolidating force to draw the disparate elements of film production, processing, and camera production back together as they were when film was in its infancy as a mass consumer item with one supplier (Kodak). Mass production requires mass consumption, as George Eastman knew back in the day. Kodak was not only the dominant film manufacturer, it was the dominant manufacturer of cameras and for a very long time, processing and printing. It's my opinion that is where analog roll and cartridge has to go to survive. Only then can it achieve the lowest overhead and the most flexibility at reaching its market, allowing film to stay affordable enough for a semblance of the consumption necessary. Film doesn't scale too well as an industrially supplied product. A niche market cannot survive with too many suppliers. Wrong product for that approach.

  2. #202
    kb3lms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gsucher View Post
    However, I think reversal film can be unsurpassed when it comes to color saturation. I don't know the scientific details, but a few years ago I bought a few rolls of Kodachrome after 20 years since using it last and took some shots of Coney Island and showed them to my wife on a light table, who was absolutely amazed at the color and realism. She has been exclusively digital since 2002 and displays on a 24" screen. I took that as high praise.
    Don't get me wrong, because I agree with exactly what you say about reversal films. My point being that if digital shines anywhere, this is it. As far as I am concerned, digital doesn't hold a candle to any decent negative film, b/w or color. But for the reasons that I believe many of the "pros" used reversal films years ago, and I do not profess to be an expert here, a digital process covers those needs with less cost and higher productivity.

    Does digi equal the quality of analog reversal? In my opinion, no. But then again, I'm not in this to try and make a living. For me it's enjoyment and that means process and results I like. Productivity is meaningless to me but to people trying to make a living in the photography business, it's not.

    Slides are beautiful. Ektachrome 200 was my favorite back in the 80s and I have many trays of slides to prove it. But nowadays I have too many other photographic interests already!

  3. #203

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aristophanes View Post
    Kodachrome was in a league unto itself due to the complex uniqueness of processing and the cost. It required substantially more volume than it was selling to stay economically viable.

    There is too much production capacity, too many companies, and too few customers. The market is something like 95% smaller now, and still shrinking. Sadly, there has been no consolidating force to draw the disparate elements of film production, processing, and camera production back together as they were when film was in its infancy as a mass consumer item with one supplier (Kodak). Mass production requires mass consumption, as George Eastman knew back in the day. Kodak was not only the dominant film manufacturer, it was the dominant manufacturer of cameras and for a very long time, processing and printing. It's my opinion that is where analog roll and cartridge has to go to survive. Only then can it achieve the lowest overhead and the most flexibility at reaching its market, allowing film to stay affordable enough for a semblance of the consumption necessary. Film doesn't scale too well as an industrially supplied product. A niche market cannot survive with too many suppliers. Wrong product for that approach.
    When Kodak goes under, Fujifilm will have a lot more customers, helping keep their plant or plants running more efficiently.

  4. #204

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian C. Miller View Post
    Texas, you're lucky you don't shoot 8x10. Kodak E100G is gone in the US. Maybe there's a box or two overseas, but in the US it's gone. Some New Yorker went and nabbed all of it, hoarding it all up. I went down to my local store, Glazer's, and all of the boxes were gone, and they told me someone in New York city bought them, and was buying everything in the US. Sure, that New Yorker may have been one of those auction houses that goes through a lot of 8x10 chrome, but it still stank.

    I bought the last two boxes of Kodak 8x10 100VS in Seattle, though. Eh, well, smoke 'em while ya got 'em!
    Just ordered enough Ektachrome in 35mm, 120 and Super 8 to last me a while. I hope E-6 16mm film (and 16mm film and Super 8) will still be around by the time I can afford to get my Bolex fixed.
    Typical digital zombies say: "Adapt or die!" "The world is changing, change with it!" "Analog is old and nasty! EEEEEEEWWWWWW!" "Why should I pay money for getting my pictures when I can have everything NOW?" "Why shoot manual when you can have the camera do everything automatically?"

    Primary 35mm camera - Pentax K1000
    Secondary 35mm camera - Mamiya/Sekor 1000 DTL - M42 Mount
    Medium Format: Mamiya RB67

  5. #205
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    Why discontinue color reversal film now, rather than earlier or latter?

    I think I figured it out... methinks EK was about to manufacture a new batch, but could not pay their suppliers.

  6. #206
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    If your theory was true they wd have ended the same stock in motion picture film. I think ending the still line will allow for internal savings (ie maybe a few less staff), just my $0.02
    Andy

  7. #207
    Aristophanes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wy2l View Post
    Why discontinue color reversal film now, rather than earlier or latter?

    I think I figured it out... methinks EK was about to manufacture a new batch, but could not pay their suppliers.
    That's actually an insightful theory. The controller in Ch. 11 may not be allowing inventory accumulation, so if they over-produce and then inventory to slice and package for another day, all without a detailed knowledge of where demand will be, then the product sits on the liability side of the balance sheet. In Ch. 11, that's a no-no, and probably triggered the decision. It would explain the motion picture film continuance which can go out the door in higher volume not waiting for B&H and Adorama to place an order.

    Good catch.

  8. #208

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aristophanes View Post
    That's actually an insightful theory. The controller in Ch. 11 may not be allowing inventory accumulation, so if they over-produce and then inventory to slice and package for another day, all without a detailed knowledge of where demand will be, then the product sits on the liability side of the balance sheet. In Ch. 11, that's a no-no, and probably triggered the decision. It would explain the motion picture film continuance which can go out the door in higher volume not waiting for B&H and Adorama to place an order.

    Good catch.
    If true, all the still photo films stand a good chance of being discontinued by Kodak as soon as their current inventory is depleted. Kodak can't make film in small on demand batches so they have to periodically do a run of a given film, hold it in inventory and cut,package, and sell it from there. If this is true and their Chapter 11 controller's flat out refused to allow them to make inventory to sell from, it breaks that whole manufacture-then sell from inventory process, and then it's a matter of time before existing supplies of Ektar, Portra, the black and white stuff etc. run low and discontinuation notices appear. I sincerely hope that this is not the case.

  9. #209
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    I don't think so, the controller's goal is to see all creditors get paid. Since the sell film and they have to make it first. If the theory is to not take any chances, they they would of pulled the plug and shut the electric off, amoung other things. This is more than just an accounting problem. JMHO
    Items for sale or trade at www.Camera35.com

  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by fotch View Post
    I don't think so, the controller's goal is to see all creditors get paid. Since the sell film and they have to make it first. If the theory is to not take any chances, they they would of pulled the plug and shut the electric off, amoung other things. This is more than just an accounting problem. JMHO
    Having been a creditor in two bankruptcies I can assure you that the first people who get paid will be the bankruptcy lawyers.
    Michael Batchelor
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    The camera catches light. The photographer catches life.



 

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