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  1. #251

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  2. #252
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adam hirsch View Post
    Thank you for the information. If it weren't my daughter's birthday, I would attend. The only experience i have with this type of paper is I used some Lodima paper, but, I would love to learn to make my own Azo paper. Will you be offering this, again, during the year?

    Adam
    That is up to GEH. IDK.

    We may move on to other topics.

    And no one should hold their breath for Kodachrome to come back. There are huge technical obstacles to overcome before it can return. It would probably take years go get a full Kodachrome line up and running again.

    PE

  3. #253

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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    That is up to GEH. IDK.

    We may move on to other topics.

    And no one should hold their breath for Kodachrome to come back. There are huge technical obstacles to overcome before it can return. It would probably take years go get a full Kodachrome line up and running again.

    PE
    I realize that the following is highly unlikely to ever happen, but from a purely technical point of view would it be feasible to update Kodachrome to use T-grain emulsion?

    I wonder if part of the reason Kodachrome lost out is that it did not undergo technology updates to keep it ahead of competing technologies.

  4. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diapositivo View Post
    I suspect some Kodak employees will change their mind about Obamacare and the more general idea of an universal health coverage European style, even though, from what I could understand, Obamacare is really not a NHS solution, but a different attempt to reach a broad coverage within the current framework of the US health system based on private insurance schemes.

    What many US people don't realise is that the US system is quite an anomaly in the Western world. In most Western countries there is no communism (not even traces of it) but there is a NHS, and the idea of universal coverage is quite obvious. That is financed largely by taxes. This doesn't mean that the rest of the Western world is right and that the US are wrong, but it certainly means that a NHS doesn't make of a country a Communist one.

    The debate over a broader coverage of health care and the way to finance seems to have fallen prey of an ideological hysteria, some kind of a "domino effect theory": you let them do a NHS system, and before you realize it you find yourself waving a red booklet... that kind of stuff.

    Said hopefully without polemic

    Fabrizio

    PS When Ferrania closed doors, all its employees, past and present, just like any other person resident in Italy, had complete health care coverage for life. The idea of saving to buy health care is totally extraneous to most Westerners.

    Stop being so logical and accurate about the facts!
    "Constitutional" Conservatives make claims all the time about what the founding fathers meant and represented, but what the CCs are stating is wholly make up and has nothing in common with what was written at the time of the revolution and writing of the Constitution except that for the most part the same alphabet was used. But never challenge a CC, because they will just spew more ad-hoc made up "facts.
    Warning!! Handling a Hasselblad can be harmful to your financial well being!

    Nothing beats a great piece of glass!

    I leave the digital work for the urologists and proctologists.

  5. #255

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    What I've learned in my life is to let things go... accept inevitable changes. I haven't believed in "destiny" for a long time now and I've learned to give-in to "whatever it is" that is to come. We have so little control of our surroundings that our "needs and wants" just don't matter. We should just let go... and breathe a little bit. In the long run what is "really" worth fighting for anyway? Not much, really. Why? Because we've stopped caring for one another. Without that... what else matters?

    Film? Really?

    ETA: Let's all hope for the best for ALL involved in the EK problems.
    Last edited by Old-N-Feeble; 03-27-2012 at 07:54 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  6. #256
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanrockwood View Post
    I realize that the following is highly unlikely to ever happen, but from a purely technical point of view would it be feasible to update Kodachrome to use T-grain emulsion?

    I wonder if part of the reason Kodachrome lost out is that it did not undergo technology updates to keep it ahead of competing technologies.
    A T-Grain 400 speed version of Kodachrome was made in the 80s and was rejected by the people to whom samples were sent. It was (to them) a ho hum product. I repeat though that this is all very unlikely to take place whatever! Ever! This requires restarting so many lines of chemical synthesis and emulsion making that it is really out of the question.

    I have had my say on this. Please, no more questions on this!!!!!! PLEASE.

    PE

  7. #257

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    Forget Kodachrome - it's history. It died with the loss of K25 and decent processing at Hemel Hempstead (if you're in the UK!).
    I'd welcome just a return of the EliteChrome/Ektachrome call them what you will reversal films, partly because I liked them and partly because a bit of competition for Fuji would be healthy.
    Steve

  8. #258

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    Special runs of Ektachrome and Plus-X in 120, please.
    - Bill Lynch

  9. #259
    Steve Smith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Roberts View Post
    Forget Kodachrome - it's history. It died with the loss of K25 and decent processing at Hemel Hempstead (if you're in the UK!).
    I remember sending it there. And Deer Park, Wimbledon springs to mind.


    Steve.
    "People who say things won't work are a dime a dozen. People who figure out how to make things work are worth a fortune" - Dave Rat.

  10. #260
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    Theory About what Kodak Is Doing

    Let's assume, for the moment, that the article cited in the OP is fact. Don't know that it is or not, but let's pretend that it is. I have a theory about what Kodak is up to and I'd like to hear what some of the rest of you might think. Let me lay out my thoughts, and this is specific to color films:

    First, some observations on my part:

    1) Kodak has put their recent R&D work (such as it is) into color negative products. Ektar, Portra, Vision 3 and maybe even consumer C-41 films derived from the above.
    2) Films outside the CN arena have been reliably discontinued, probably as the master rolls have run out. Examples: Kodachrome, Ektachrome and so on.
    3) Color negative use IS declining but will probably settle out at some relatively stable level. Maybe we haven't hit bottom yet or maybe we have. IDK. But I am assuming there is or will be a residual market worth serving.
    4) We've all noticed over the last few years that the newest offerings (Portra, Vision 3, Ektar) have definite similarities. Kodak seems to present Vision3 as the root from which the others are derived.
    5) It also seems that the latest offerings are very versatile. (Well, maybe not Ektar) Good results over a wide range of situations, push to higher speeds with good results, etc.
    6) In the OP the speaker is cited as saying that new technology will allow Kodak to make any sort of film (I am assuming current offerings here) at no particular minimum quantity, as long as the roll is 54 inches wide, i.e. coated on the same line on the same machine.

    So, then, this is what I think they are doing:

    Kodak has, or is working on, a standardized color negative emulsion that they can use to make ANY AND ALL of the current products. There are slow speed, medium speed and fast speed silver components which can be selectively blended to yield an ISO of whatever you want: 100, 250, 400, 800 and so on. To make any particular film stock, you then tweak the particular dyes and sensitizers that are added to the emulsion. All this mixing is done under computer control just ahead of the coating line AT PRODUCTION TIME. A master roll is then coated with whatever product mix they desire in a specified sequence and then cut up accordingly.

    So let's say, for example, we would need (in 35mm) 5000 rolls of Ektar, 10000 of Portra 160, 7500 of Portra 400 and 50,000 feet of 5207 in 35mm for a given week's production. (Realize I am just making up numbers for an example as I don't know the specifics involved.) A coating run might go like this, then, assuming a continuous supply of film base at the beginning of the line: 4000 feet are coated with 5207, then under computer control, the mix is changed and the next 950 fee are coated for Portra 160. Then the mix changes again and the next 700 feet are coated for Portra 400. Finally the mix is changed for Ektar and the final 500 feet of the run are coated with that.

    The coating line doesn't stop. As the film comes off the line it is cut between the various products and made into smaller master rolls of each. These smaller masters then are slit and packaged in the traditional manner. Or maybe the the coated film is fed continuously through the slitting and packaging operation with that part of the process automatically changed on demand as well.

    This production methodology could be scaled for production on a weekly basis, or maybe, daily or maybe even hourly. The idea being that they keep the line running by producing only the product mix needed over a relatively short period of time. What's being coated by the machine is a mix of very closely related variations based on the same basic components. It allows enourmous flexibility. If we don't need any Ektar this week, we don't coat any, but we have already shipped the stock we made and don't have master rolls (INVENTORY and therefore $$$$) languishing on the shelf aging and potentially going to waste. You make it and ship it in one operation exactly at the time it is needed. Nothing sits around in the warehouse consuming space and inventory dollars going bad.

    If you needed a special film, as long as it is made from the same basic components, you run it through the same process by creating a special program for the computer control and coat exactly the amount you need. No leftover and no waste. Or at least minimal waste. You can coat 100 feet of it once a year and the impact is just about nil because we have moved from a batch process to a customizable, continuous process using standaized components.

    Obviously this is a simplistic example but I think it fits the "facts" - in the sense of "facts" that are floating around here. If I were given their constraints these days, that's how I'd do it. And based on the direction the manufacturing consultants my employer has hired over the last few years have steered our workplace, if Kodak had anyone similar helping their reorganization, and I am sure they do, I'd be willing to bet this is the direction they are being driven.

    Can B/W films fit directly into the process on the same line? IDK but B/W can likely be produced in the same manner.



 

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