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  1. #321
    jnanian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CGW View Post
    Agree. Despite my flagrantly over-reported pessimism, I'm truly concerned that price is building as the biggest downdraft on demand for Kodak product. Local pricing here in Toronto--thanks, apparently, to no steady wholesale supplier--is climbing and it's still cheaper to buy from B&H. Suck it up? For now, yeah. But sinking demand-->higher prices-->lower demand-->even higher prices. People loathed old Aristophanes hereabouts but he knew the economics no one really wanted to face.
    cgw

    i don't think you are a pessimist, you are a realist ..
    no one wants to read or see or hear what they know to be true.
    ( i agree with most of what you say ... )

    i know what you mean, i thought about how if i don't buy it now it was going to be more expensive
    because my measly 200 sheets would have kept the price down ... but then i realized
    that i don't have $360 to spend on 180$, or 90$ of film. i would rather not eat ( or make my family eat )
    mac+cheese or ramen-noodles or PBJ sandwiches for a few months because i splurged on film.
    besides i don't think my 200 sheets will be missed one bit ... i bought 200 sheets a few months
    ago and it wasn't noticed, they raised the prices before and afterwards.

    john

  2. #322
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RattyMouse View Post
    It was very disappointing to see how Aristophanes was treated by some here. To an objective observer such as myself, I could clearly see he was no troll. The guy clearly knows what he is talking about regarding corporate economics. I never sensed he was happy about the seemingly unstoppable demise of film. He was just reading the cards as they continued to be dealt.
    If he was so correct, how could so many people poke so many holes in his arguments? I think that is what I noticed more than anything else. His feelings about analog are, as you say and I agree.

    Pe

  3. #323
    lxdude's Avatar
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    A cogent point, PE.
    He had a point of view, and it was based at least in part on his background, but that didn't make his opinions right.
    More than once he misinterpreted events at Kodak, stating they indicated something which was not so.
    So he got challenged, and rightly so.
    Last edited by lxdude; 05-12-2012 at 06:44 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    I do use a digital device in my photographic pursuits when necessary.
    When someone rags on me for using film, I use a middle digit, upraised.

  4. #324
    CGW
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    Quote Originally Posted by lxdude View Post
    A cogent point, PE.
    He had a point of view, and it was based at least in part on his background, but that didn't make his opinions right.
    He misinterpreted data more than once.
    OK, like what? He understood microeconomics and didn't have much time for the magical thinking, fabulism, and misinformation often used to counter his arguments. Been awhile since I've seen a messenger shot up as badly.

  5. #325
    lxdude's Avatar
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    It's hard to quote him, because when he left he took his posts with him.

    But after the dissolution of the 3 separate groups and establishment of the current commercial and consumer groups, he said that the film division was gone. And he meant gone. It wasn't, of course-only the external structure changed, with the film division serving both.

    He also declared that a condition of bankruptcy was that film production would cease. He somehow gleaned that out of the statements, saying that it would be a requirement in that situation. He was wrong; no one else here could find what he was talking about, but did find some statements which contradicted that.

    He wasn't a messenger-he was a person with an opinion. People working in finance are often sure of opinions which turn out to be wrong. A lot of people have become painfully aware of that in the last several years.
    Last edited by lxdude; 05-12-2012 at 09:59 PM. Click to view previous post history. Reason: clarity
    I do use a digital device in my photographic pursuits when necessary.
    When someone rags on me for using film, I use a middle digit, upraised.

  6. #326
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    He also stated that the film division was not making money, but it is. In fact, for the last several years it is the only manufacturing division at EK that has steadily returned a profit. Although it is also steadily decreasing mostly due to the decline in MP use which was thoroughly reported in another series of threads.

    PE

  7. #327
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    I read a quote in the Wall Street Journal today, by The Intelligent Investor columnist, Jason Zweig. He was broadly talking about risk management and the "Feynman Principle," which states "You must not fool yourself - you are the easiest person to fool."

    Nobody knows how this thing is going to play out.

  8. #328
    CGW
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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    He also stated that the film division was not making money, but it is. In fact, for the last several years it is the only manufacturing division at EK that has steadily returned a profit. Although it is also steadily decreasing mostly due to the decline in MP use which was thoroughly reported in another series of threads.

    PE
    All he did was state the obvious: when gravely wounded in all four limbs, it's cold comfort that to know you're bleeding less from your right arm. Exsanguination results anyway.

  9. #329
    lxdude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CGW View Post
    All he did was state the obvious: when gravely wounded in all four limbs, it's cold comfort that to know you're bleeding less from your right arm. Exsanguination results regardless.
    That is not what he did. He stated flatly that the film division was not profitable, when the financial reports stated otherwise.
    I do use a digital device in my photographic pursuits when necessary.
    When someone rags on me for using film, I use a middle digit, upraised.

  10. #330
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Not if you cauterize the wounds in the worst limbs. In this case, the film and chemicals divisions were doing well, but digital printers were doing poorly. Perez kept pushing digital printers in the face of HP and Canon and it just was not and is not working out.

    If you keep doing the same thing over and over and expect different results, well, this is a sign that something serious is wrong. In this case, as stated elsewhere, the wrong divisions were sold or scaled back. In fact, to state it more broadly, Kodak is/was a chemical company, but they sold off all of their chemical divisions which seem to be doing well. One shining example is Eastman Chemical at Kingsport Tenn.

    PE



 

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