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  1. #331
    Hatchetman's Avatar
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    I read a quote in the Wall Street Journal today, by The Intelligent Investor columnist, Jason Zweig. He was broadly talking about risk management and the "Feynman Principle," which states "You must not fool yourself - you are the easiest person to fool."

    Nobody knows how this thing is going to play out.

  2. #332
    CGW
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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    He also stated that the film division was not making money, but it is. In fact, for the last several years it is the only manufacturing division at EK that has steadily returned a profit. Although it is also steadily decreasing mostly due to the decline in MP use which was thoroughly reported in another series of threads.

    PE
    All he did was state the obvious: when gravely wounded in all four limbs, it's cold comfort that to know you're bleeding less from your right arm. Exsanguination results anyway.

  3. #333
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    Quote Originally Posted by CGW View Post
    All he did was state the obvious: when gravely wounded in all four limbs, it's cold comfort that to know you're bleeding less from your right arm. Exsanguination results regardless.
    That is not what he did. He stated flatly that the film division was not profitable, when the financial reports stated otherwise.
    I do use a digital device in my photographic pursuits when necessary.
    When someone rags on me for using film, I use a middle digit, upraised.

  4. #334
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Not if you cauterize the wounds in the worst limbs. In this case, the film and chemicals divisions were doing well, but digital printers were doing poorly. Perez kept pushing digital printers in the face of HP and Canon and it just was not and is not working out.

    If you keep doing the same thing over and over and expect different results, well, this is a sign that something serious is wrong. In this case, as stated elsewhere, the wrong divisions were sold or scaled back. In fact, to state it more broadly, Kodak is/was a chemical company, but they sold off all of their chemical divisions which seem to be doing well. One shining example is Eastman Chemical at Kingsport Tenn.

    PE

  5. #335
    CGW
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    Quote Originally Posted by lxdude View Post
    That is not what he did. He stated flatly that the film division was not profitable, when the financial reports stated otherwise.
    Too bad his posts got scrubbed. We'll see where things stand later in the year. It's not a robust company, as we all know.

    Many here resented--and rejected--his arguments that demand for film was in freefall and far from bottoming out. I'm not seeing data that contravene this.

  6. #336

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    Quote Originally Posted by CGW View Post
    Too bad his posts got scrubbed. We'll see where things stand later in the year. It's not a robust company, as we all know.

    Many here resented--and rejected--his arguments that demand for film was in freefall and far from bottoming out. I'm not seeing data that contravene this.
    We get this, I get this and after some private message sessions with him, I understood where he was coming from. At least he replied to my messages, you did not.

    I think it sucks he is gone and I think it really sucks his posts are gone. He can be found on RFF...

    But he could no sooner answer the question in private that I had asked him on the threads: What are we photographers supposed to do with this information? Some of us are technical photographers, some are emotional ones, either way, it's pretty obvious that outside of framing our own pursuits of furthering the future of film, we are at the mercy of many forces of both economic and societal shifts...

    So what are we supposed to do? If film is doomed at least in terms of Kodak product like some of the speculation may suggest, what the hell is a creative person who likes the option of film to do?

    Any suggestions CGW? Because frankly the fact I try to inspire to people by telling them details about what I do daily to keep positive about the future of film being labled by you as an effing press release has more people than just me wondering what in the hell your aim is on this site...


    We get the doom and gloom man, we are not stupid, we just don't know what the f__k to do about it other than put our best foot and film based image forward.
    Last edited by PKM-25; 05-13-2012 at 01:21 AM. Click to view previous post history.
    "I'm the freak that shoots film. God bless the freaks!" ~ Mainecoonmaniac ~

  7. #337
    Diapositivo's Avatar
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    Future is unknown to everybody, including the Cassandras of this site. They might be right. They might be wrong. We don't know and they don't know. "Past performance is not an indication of future results", that's true also as far as film sales are concerned.

    I don't understand in which way "pessimism" might influence the photographer, be it professional or digital.
    If your clients go on requesting analogue work, or if you like making analogue work, just buy films and chemicals and go on with your business.
    When it is not anymore possible to do so, switch to something else.

    We'll have to die one day which shouldn't prevent us from living now.
    The fact that a certain film might be discontinued in the future does not prevent me from using it now and does not discourage me in any way. My investment in cameras and darkroom equipment is already done.

    The only persons who might be affected by this kind of speculations are those who are just now making an investment in film cameras. But film cameras being still relatively cheap, that shouldn't discourage them either.

    Speculation about the future is not going to be conducive to anything useful for our hobby/profession, whether you are a pessimist or an optimist.

    I'm an optimist but I would go on using film even if I were a pessimist. Actually I would use more of it if I were a pessimist.

    Fabrizio
    Fabrizio Ruggeri fine art photography site: http://fabrizio-ruggeri.artistwebsites.com
    Stock images at Imagebroker: http://www.imagebroker.com/#/search/ib_fbr

  8. #338
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Film is in decline and we do not know when it will bottom out.

    So, while we have it, and life itself, we should do the best we can with what we have.

    PE

  9. #339

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    Quote Originally Posted by PKM-25 View Post
    ...What are we photographers supposed to do with this information? Some of us are technical photographers, some are emotional ones, either way, it's pretty obvious that outside of framing our own pursuits of furthering the future of film, we are at the mercy of many forces of both economic and societal shifts...

    So what are we supposed to do? If film is doomed at least in terms of Kodak product like some of the speculation may suggest, what the hell is a creative person who likes the option of film to do?

    Any suggestions CGW? Because frankly the fact I try to inspire to people by telling them details about what I do daily to keep positive about the future of film being labled by you as an effing press release has more people than just me wondering what in the hell your aim is on this site...
    Dan, thanks for framing that response so well. You're quite a bit younger than I and, therefore, still retain a patience when dealing with this relentless drumbeat which, unfortunately, tends to fade over the years.

    If only people on one's Ignore List weren't quoted.



 

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