PDN's article on the future of film

[RattyMouse]

Since film is no longer a high profit, high volume consumer item, will developing countries like Czech Republic take up the slack in making film? It's little money for richer countries like US, UK and Japan, but it's a lot for the Czechs.

Good point. Everything else has moved to China, why not film?

[CGW]

Good point. Everything else has moved to China, why not film?

Demand? Relative to smartphones and digital p&s, how many film cameras do you see along the Bund?

[RattyMouse]

Demand? Relative to smartphones and digital p&s, how many film cameras do you see along the Bund?

Probably more than in most places. Shanghai has a very active used camera market. And a very active film users group.

I walk by stores that have dozens of Contax G2's lined up. Dozens of Contax film SLR's and lenses. Hundreds of Canon's, Nikon's, folders, Rollie's, Seagulls, you name it, it can be bought here. The main camera mall here has several floors of used gear with a huge amount of that analogue equipment.

How's this for a sight for this group?

[CGW]

Probably more than in most places. Shanghai has a very active used camera market. And a very active film users group.

I walk by stores that have dozens of Contax G2's lined up. Dozens of Contax film SLR's and lenses. Hundreds of Canon's, Nikon's, folders, Rollie's, Seagulls, you name it, it can be bought here. The main camera mall here has several floors of used gear with a huge amount of that analogue equipment.

How's this for a sight for this group?

Given a population of 24 million I'd expect that. Friends at Fudan tell me anyone with sufficient cash tends to throw it at digital, much like N. America, but there's a large rear guard. They think prices are high on used film gear and tell me it doesn't move that quickly. What's your take?

[Diapositivo]

I don't know if I understood the article correctly, but it seems that the formulas used and the chemicals used have each of them their own optimal scale of production.

Firm A produces film AF using chemicals X, Y and Z which are economically produced for quantities starting from 100 SUMs (sum units of measure).

Firm B produces film BF using chemicals U, V and W which are economically produced from quantities starting from 1 SUMs.

Kodak is like Firm A. They cannot "downscale" not just because of the relative lack of small coating machines but also because the chemicals themselves require a large productive scale.

A Firm B, like let's say Agfa, can produce colour film in much (much, very much) smaller quantities and still be profitable.

This leads me to see both halves of the glasses:

Empty half: one cannot just move production of the existing Kodak slide film to another factory. Besides problems in duplicating production, there are the scale production problems. Chemicals in Kodak products were thought, since the design stage, for a large scale production.

Full half: production of colour film is possible in relatively small quantities. Fuji and Agfa can remain profitable for a long time. A new entrant might attempt some colour film production. He'll have to start as a small scale producer, but it's feasible.

Maybe PE can clarify whether really the production scale is dependent on the chemical "recipe" used by the products.

Fabrizio

[Mainecoonmaniac]

Given a population of 24 million I'd expect that.

In China, if a photographer is told he's one in a million, it's not a big deal. With a population of one billion, there are a thousand of them. Hopefully they're film shooters

[CGW]

In China, if a photographer is told he's one in a million, it's not a big deal. With a population of one billion, there are a thousand of them. Hopefully they're film shooters

The scale of Shanghai is...scary. Especially for Canadians who live in the world's second largest country with only 34 million--more people live in California alone.

[kb3lms]

Hopefully the Chinese will keep making color film after Kodak goes out next year.

[wblynch]

I don't know if I understood the article correctly, but it seems that the formulas used and the chemicals used have each of them their own optimal scale of production.

I think that has to be business double speak.

Certainly they had to be able to make smaller batches and runs for research and development.

And certainly, the production runs had to meet the standards set by the pilot runs.

I have worked inside enough huge American corporations (and seen and heard plenty of confidential information) to know they lie a lot. (well, mostly lie)

The problem is once they scale up they can never imagine scaling down.

[kb3lms]

I have worked inside enough huge American corporations (and seen and heard plenty of confidential information) to know they lie a lot. (well, mostly lie)

The problem is once they scale up they can never imagine scaling down.

Or, most of the time, management doesn't really understand the issue anyway so they just avoid it and check out rather than adapt. At my current company, everytime there is a minor problem with a product it becomes "OMG we can never make one again." Usually engineering fixes it in a day or so and the world goes on. I'm sure most companies and industrial processes are much the same.

At least at Kodak they have an excuse - the nucular reactor fried their brains. Maybe that's been the problem all along. Some random neutron blew apart the critcal brain cell and the place went to hell in a hand basket.