Switch to English Language Passer en langue française Omschakelen naar Nederlandse Taal Wechseln Sie zu deutschen Sprache Passa alla lingua italiana
Members: 68,651   Posts: 1,481,302   Online: 847
      
Page 8 of 13 FirstFirst ... 2345678910111213 LastLast
Results 71 to 80 of 125
  1. #71

    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Mission Viejo, California
    Shooter
    127 Format
    Posts
    1,336
    True, but consider for discussion... Economic models show a cost (say per roll of 25 cents). Using the large scale system they're used to, they can figure the 25 cents base plus advertising (ha) distribution, fixed plant costs, labor costs, money costs, profit, shareholder equity, amortized write offs and all those factors to come up with a retail price and predicted volume. (say $3.50)

    Now, change the formula so the base cost of the film is no longer 25 cents but 75 cents. For you and I it makes sense to raise the retail price to $4.25 and all is well.

    But in their mind it needs to go to $10.50 to keep their spreadsheets going and now it's out of reason.


    Quote Originally Posted by Diapositivo View Post
    I agree, but pilot batches only aim at showing the actual working of the product, without being constrained by cost or availability. A pilot batch can be more expensive but the final production could be less expensive.

    It might be that certain products are easily available in small batches but not in large batches (because factories currently producing them don't supply huge quantities and Kodak doesn't want to start production themselves, let's say), and that other products are available in large quantities and cost less, so that the kind of chemical products used is decided having consideration for the productive scale.
    - Bill Lynch

  2. #72
    CGW
    CGW is offline

    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    2,798
    Quote Originally Posted by RattyMouse View Post
    I think all of the above is true. Digital is by far the most common camera here in China. The film stores and used analogue stores have nowhere near the traffic that the digital ones do. Yet they are still there, with folks making their living off selling film cameras. So there must be enough traffic to support them. The sheer variety of film cameras one can buy here is amazing. Probably any model you can think of.

    I'm still outside this game, trying to decide how or if to enter. I grew up shooting film and would like to do so again, with a very nice film camera, not something cheap. I constantly get close to buying a Fuji GF670 but always back away because it is not clear film (or more likely processing) will be available for the life of this camera. I wish I had a crystal ball.......
    Get the Fuji. Get something MF and start shooting, OK? I went on a buying spree when prices were down in late 07 and built kits I liked in 645/6x6/6x7 over the next 2-3 years for very little $. Would I buy more now? No. Would I start shooting MF now? Yes. Friends and the guanxi web will direct you to good processing and printing. Hybrid is where most of us are going--like it or not. My great little local pro lab finally stopped scanning early this year, so I'm piling up negs and trans while I figure out scanning options. Not all inkjet is crap. DIY b&w isn't punishing(even saw an AP dev tank in your store pix). Get off the fence and try it. Make the best of the film situation in Shanghai and shoot Shanghai. Drag a camera to Suzhou--a friend got great stuff with his Shen Hao 4x5 there last month.

    My take, especially with film? Drink up. Miss less and shoot all you can.

  3. #73
    chuck94022's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Los Altos, CA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    602
    Blog Entries
    1
    Images
    10
    Quote Originally Posted by RattyMouse View Post
    Probably more than in most places. Shanghai has a very active used camera market. And a very active film users group.

    I walk by stores that have dozens of Contax G2's lined up. Dozens of Contax film SLR's and lenses. Hundreds of Canon's, Nikon's, folders, Rollie's, Seagulls, you name it, it can be bought here. The main camera mall here has several floors of used gear with a huge amount of that analogue equipment.

    How's this for a sight for this group?

    Attachment 51036
    Film is alive and well here in Beijing. This past weekend I was shooting large format at the Ancient Observatory, a must see little attraction for tourists, because almost no one goes there (it is an oasis of calm in a massive city). As I was setting up a shot, a Chinese tourist wandered by. Hanging around his neck was an Olympus 35RD!

    He got a big thumbs up from me!

  4. #74

    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Shanghai, China
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    1,427
    Images
    24
    Quote Originally Posted by CGW View Post
    Get the Fuji. Get something MF and start shooting, OK? I went on a buying spree when prices were down in late 07 and built kits I liked in 645/6x6/6x7 over the next 2-3 years for very little $. Would I buy more now? No. Would I start shooting MF now? Yes. Friends and the guanxi web will direct you to good processing and printing. Hybrid is where most of us are going--like it or not. My great little local pro lab finally stopped scanning early this year, so I'm piling up negs and trans while I figure out scanning options. Not all inkjet is crap. DIY b&w isn't punishing(even saw an AP dev tank in your store pix). Get off the fence and try it. Make the best of the film situation in Shanghai and shoot Shanghai. Drag a camera to Suzhou--a friend got great stuff with his Shen Hao 4x5 there last month.

    My take, especially with film? Drink up. Miss less and shoot all you can.

    Thanks for the encouragement!! Your enthusiasm is infectious.

  5. #75

    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Shanghai, China
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    1,427
    Images
    24
    Quote Originally Posted by chuck94022 View Post
    Film is alive and well here in Beijing. This past weekend I was shooting large format at the Ancient Observatory, a must see little attraction for tourists, because almost no one goes there (it is an oasis of calm in a massive city). As I was setting up a shot, a Chinese tourist wandered by. Hanging around his neck was an Olympus 35RD!

    He got a big thumbs up from me!

    I have not been to Beijing in years. I have to get up there sometime as I am burning out on Shanghai.

    Do you shoot medium format? What (135mm) effective focal length do you shoot if yes?

  6. #76
    Diapositivo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Rome, Italy
    Shooter
    35mm
    Posts
    1,844
    Quote Originally Posted by RattyMouse View Post
    My big fear is being forced to accept digital (ink jet) prints from my negatives. I have NO experience in what those will look like compared to analogue and fear that I will not be happy with that. Your take?
    The general consensus in the forum, supported by the opinion of competent people like PE, is that for various reasons colour negatives are much less at risk than slide film. Black & White is totally out of extinction risk, colour negative is closely observed, slide film is on the Appendix I of CITES

    Regarding printing, you will always be able to print colour negatives to chemical papers using laboratories which use machines like the Durst Lambda. Those machines scan the negative, obtain a digital image which they use to project coloured light on the photographic paper (just like an enlarger would do) which is then developed chemically. It's a hybrid process which belong to this forum as most participants just ignore that when they bring their negative film to be developed and printed the most likely occurrence is that the printing is hybrid.

    Actually I suspect a Durst Lambda is able to print a positive with just the same ease as it prints a negative. Those machines are not produced any more but should certainly remain working for many years. Besides, production can resume one day. It's like with film cameras: new ones are scarcely produced now because the second-hand market satisfies the demand.

    I think you can buy that GF670 with high confidence that you will be able to use it with black & white and with colour negatives and have them printed on chemical papers for many years to come.
    Fabrizio Ruggeri fine art photography site: http://fabrizio-ruggeri.artistwebsites.com
    Stock images at Imagebroker: http://www.imagebroker.com/#/search/ib_fbr

  7. #77

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    46
    Quote Originally Posted by wblynch View Post
    True, but consider for discussion... Economic models show a cost (say per roll of 25 cents). Using the large scale system they're used to, they can figure the 25 cents base plus advertising (ha) distribution, fixed plant costs, labor costs, money costs, profit, shareholder equity, amortized write offs and all those factors to come up with a retail price and predicted volume. (say $3.50)

    Now, change the formula so the base cost of the film is no longer 25 cents but 75 cents. For you and I it makes sense to raise the retail price to $4.25 and all is well.

    But in their mind it needs to go to $10.50 to keep their spreadsheets going and now it's out of reason.
    Well here a roll cost you 7$ now, we still buy. We will still buy at 10$.

  8. #78
    CGW
    CGW is offline

    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    2,798
    Quote Originally Posted by Diapositivo View Post
    The general consensus in the forum, supported by the opinion of competent people like PE, is that for various reasons colour negatives are much less at risk than slide film. Black & White is totally out of extinction risk, colour negative is closely observed, slide film is on the Appendix I of CITES

    Regarding printing, you will always be able to print colour negatives to chemical papers using laboratories which use machines like the Durst Lambda. Those machines scan the negative, obtain a digital image which they use to project coloured light on the photographic paper (just like an enlarger would do) which is then developed chemically. It's a hybrid process which belong to this forum as most participants just ignore that when they bring their negative film to be developed and printed the most likely occurrence is that the printing is hybrid.

    Actually I suspect a Durst Lambda is able to print a positive with just the same ease as it prints a negative. Those machines are not produced any more but should certainly remain working for many years. Besides, production can resume one day. It's like with film cameras: new ones are scarcely produced now because the second-hand market satisfies the demand.

    I think you can buy that GF670 with high confidence that you will be able to use it with black & white and with colour negatives and have them printed on chemical papers for many years to come.
    The big Durst Lambdas are great but they're large, expensive, and require pricey contract-bound service. Lab owner friends went with a new Fuji dry system that's very impressive after retiring their Lambda.

  9. #79
    jp498's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Owls Head ME
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    1,344
    Images
    69
    Quote Originally Posted by RattyMouse View Post
    You are right of course. I am primarily a color shooter so the fact that B & W will be around for the long haul is less than satisfactory a reason for me.

    My big fear is being forced to accept digital (ink jet) prints from my negatives. I have NO experience in what those will look like compared to analogue and fear that I will not be happy with that. Your take?
    Sounds like you're fearing uncertainty more than actual results.

    Inkjet results vary quite a bit depending on the output material and operator skills. They can put out crap or they can put out imagery that looks like platinum of 100 years ago or the most contemporary color. I think they lack slightly in emulating actual silver prints.. But I like B&W darkroom, so I stick with analog printing of most of my film.

    Color film especially c41 is still a wonderful capture medium you should be willing to use, knowing you can do either analog or hybrid or fully digital output.

  10. #80
    Mainecoonmaniac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    2,718
    Images
    6
    Yes inkjet can look pretty good. What I've seen lately from most hobby photog's injet prints are over saturated, saccharine images. The attitude of "more color the better" and "The bigger the better". I've owned 3 Epson printers. They crap out way too soon. It seems that the days of E-6 are numbered and I hope C-41 neg film will survive. The is still at least RA chemistry and paper still available.



 

APUG PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Contact Us  |  Support Us!  |  Advertise  |  Site Terms  |  Archive  —   Search  |  Mobile Device Access  |  RSS  |  Facebook  |  Linkedin