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  1. #111

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sal Santamaura View Post
    Yet another instance of someone knowing the price of all things but the value of none.

    OK, time for more posts about how expensive film and paper are.
    Uh...if I KNOW that I'm not going to use the information contained in the book to make my own films,etc, the value is pretty much known to me. Perhaps it is you who do not understand.

  2. #112

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    Sal may have just gotten up on the wrong side of the bed, RattyMouse, or maybe he was posting before his morning coffee. I wouldn't worry about it. Lots of people probably feel the same as you. I have almost bought the book and DVDs several times, but each time I backed down. It's on my list and I'll probably eventually buy it, but my desire to replace my broken color enlarging head is more urgent. It is, in fact, a value proposition. If I were hungry, I'd spend my money first on food.

  3. #113

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    Quote Originally Posted by RattyMouse View Post
    Wow, I wish I could flip through your book. That's a lot of money...
    Quote Originally Posted by Sal Santamaura View Post
    Yet another instance of someone knowing the price of all things but the value of none.

    OK, time for more posts about how expensive film and paper are.
    Quote Originally Posted by RattyMouse View Post
    Uh...if I KNOW that I'm not going to use the information contained in the book to make my own films,etc, the value is pretty much known to me. Perhaps it is you who do not understand.
    I understand completely. Your approach leads to two things. First, when practiced in retail book stores, it results in dog-eared books that nobody purchases; a loss to the merchant, distributor, publisher and author. Second, it assigns a monetary value of zero to Ron's labors. He spent years writing the book and preparing the CD. Your willingness to pay nothing for it indicates it (and his knowledge/effort) has no value.

    Quote Originally Posted by SkipA View Post
    Sal may have just gotten up on the wrong side of the bed...or maybe he was posting before his morning coffee...
    There's no need to make excuses for me. I always arise on the same side of my bed and never consume coffee. I posted in reaction not only to the quote included, but also in frustration with many, many others who have over the years complained bitterly with every Kodak price increase announcement. Thus the second sentence of my post.

    Reality sucks. Kodak has a large, high-volume film coating line it transitioned to in the 1990s. That line requires coating huge quantities of material to be profitable. With mass markets having moved to digital, the expense Kodak's coating approach must be amortized over ever lower sales, especially when spoilage in storage results. Can those posting on this and similar forums who sing the praises of Kodak products grasp how that must necessarily result in higher unit prices? Do they understand the value of Kodak film quality? No. Instead, they continuously complain about the price. Perhaps now you'll understand what I wrote.

  4. #114

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    I have to admit you were a bit cryptic there, Sal, the first time around. You just sounded sour. But anyway, I'm not one of those who complain about the price. I just buy what I can use or afford to stockpile, and I'm happy to have it available to me. It will be a bummer when its gone. I'll hold out hope and keep buying until that happens. It's not gone until it's gone.

  5. #115

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sal Santamaura View Post
    I understand completely. Your approach leads to two things. First, when practiced in retail book stores, it results in dog-eared books that nobody purchases; a loss to the merchant, distributor, publisher and author. Second, it assigns a monetary value of zero to Ron's labors. He spent years writing the book and preparing the CD. Your willingness to pay nothing for it indicates it (and his knowledge/effort) has no value.

    There's no need to make excuses for me. I always arise on the same side of my bed and never consume coffee. I posted in reaction not only to the quote included, but also in frustration with many, many others who have over the years complained bitterly with every Kodak price increase announcement. Thus the second sentence of my post.

    Reality sucks. Kodak has a large, high-volume film coating line it transitioned to in the 1990s. That line requires coating huge quantities of material to be profitable. With mass markets having moved to digital, the expense Kodak's coating approach must be amortized over ever lower sales, especially when spoilage in storage results. Can those posting on this and similar forums who sing the praises of Kodak products grasp how that must necessarily result in higher unit prices? Do they understand the value of Kodak film quality? No. Instead, they continuously complain about the price. Perhaps now you'll understand what I wrote.

    1. I don't dog ear books when I read them in the book store. In fact that vast majority of people leave books as they found them. You take a tiny phenomena and blow it way out of proportion. I also read most of my books from a library. Does my doing so for free devalue anyone's work? What about when I borrow a book from someone?

    2. You know NOTHING about how much I value or don't value PE's work. You look more than a little pompous stating such. I have limited funds and I have to spend it wisely. A $120 book has to have a return to me besides intellectual interest at this point. Your nonsensical viewpoint completely misses the point.

    3. I have never once complained about the cost of film so you introducing this into your rant is again, nonsensical. i value good film otherwise I would not have just purchased a film camera. Nor would I have shot 6 rolls of film (ACROS 100) this weekend.

    The fact is, I cannot justify purchasing a $120 book now. If it were $20, I could be more free about such a things. As it is now, I have a photography hobby to support while raising two kids. The funds have to stop somewhere and a $120 book doesnt make the cut now.

    It is shocking that something as basic as this needs explaining.

  6. #116

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    Wow...

  7. #117

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianShaw View Post
    Wow...

    tell me about it...

  8. #118
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    Yeah. Now I remember why I have Sal on ignore at the LFPF. It's a little harder here, but it is possible.

    I don't devalue Ron's work when I choose to spend my money on books about stuff I will actually use. I'm sure it's awesome if I were going to make my own film. I can't see myself doing that unless commercial film goes away completely so... none of us have unlimited money. We have to spend it where it will do us the most good. This has NOTHING to do with the amount or quality of work someone put in to creating it.

    No offense Ron. I'm sure it's excellent. But I'm not going to be coating my own anytime soon (I hope, anyway, not as long as Ilford is around at least.)

  9. #119

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Cole View Post
    Yeah. Now I remember why I have Sal on ignore at the LFPF. It's a little harder here, but it is possible.

    I don't devalue Ron's work when I choose to spend my money on books about stuff I will actually use. I'm sure it's awesome if I were going to make my own film. I can't see myself doing that unless commercial film goes away completely so... none of us have unlimited money. We have to spend it where it will do us the most good. This has NOTHING to do with the amount or quality of work someone put in to creating it.

    No offense Ron. I'm sure it's excellent. But I'm not going to be coating my own anytime soon (I hope, anyway, not as long as Ilford is around at least.)
    I've never thought about putting someone on ignore here. I'll have to look into that.

    PE's book is surely outstanding. I'm a practicing formulation chemist in a field unrelated to photography. I've been formulating products for 20 years and often wonder about the various differences between all the types of films. Even more basic, I'd like to learn about the raw materials one can find in film. I'm sure PE's book would be a fascinating read. I'm envious of PE's experience.

    Books in my field of work go for $120 or a LOT more. A book like PE's has ever right to cost what it does, because the appeal is very limited and so sales will not be high.

    Just because I cant afford a $120 book does NOT mean that I dont value it. Such an assumption is pure nonsense.

  10. #120

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    Sigh.....

    I hope we get even a tiny bit of good news from the patent auctions tomorrow, I think everyone could use it.



 

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