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  1. #51

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    2007, according to Wikipedia. I'm not sure what that tells us. I just know I want to keep on using Kodak film and paper products as long as I possibly can, and I hope they stick around. Somehow.

  2. #52
    RattyMouse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PKM-25 View Post
    Obviously, it tells *you* what you want to hear. As for some of us, we keep shooing Kodak, Ilford, Fuji, etc. daily and go about our daily lives as image making photographers. Kodak is making and selling film, until I hear different, I don't really care about any of this crap.
    Whoa boy. Calm down. FYI I just bought my first film camera last week. First film camera since about 10 years ago. I dont have any anti-film bias here AT ALL. PERIOD.

    We are participating in a discussion about the longevity of Kodak. You dont like it? Then get out of this thread. If you dont care, as you claim to, then why are you here?

    I bought two rolls of Kodak TMax 400 and a few of Porta400. But I am not going to buy anymore Kodak because I'd rather try to help a healthy film company survive. Ilford deserves more business because they clearly have competent managers. Fujifilm too.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkipA View Post
    2007, according to Wikipedia. I'm not sure what that tells us. I just know I want to keep on using Kodak film and paper products as long as I possibly can, and I hope they stick around. Somehow.
    Kodak's future is out of their hands. The courts have the final say in Kodak's exit from bankruptcy. Can they exit without showing a profit? Is that even possible?

    5 years without a profit is a loooong time.

  4. #54
    Roger Cole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkipA View Post
    What's for sale? I thought it was Kodak digital patents, some 1100 of them. That's what the article linked in the OP and a couple of subsequent posters have said.

    Suppose someone buys them and Kodak doesn't have to file chapter 8, what of the film and paper division? Is there any reason to think that Kodak will continue to produce and market film and paper? It doesn't seem like there's enough money there to keep Kodak going.
    My understanding was that the film products were one of the few areas, maybe the only area, in which they ARE making a profit. Not a big one, certainly not big enough to help the overall company that much, but turning a profit on film and paper none the less.

  5. #55

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    The only products from Kodak that are important to me are film and paper. If the company survives but the film and paper division does not, then it ceases to be relevant to me.

  6. #56
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    It has been clear for a long time that the market for analogue photography products would never again be near what it once was.

    Kodak used to make huge profits from that market. As Kodak is a public company, its Board of Directors has and had the legal duty to attempt to replace those profits with similar profits.

    When the world started turning away from film, it was clear that Kodak had to look elsewhere to replace most of those huge profits.

    They have done a very poor job of finding and taking advantage of replacement profit sources. In addition, arguably they have done a very poor job of maximizing the benefit of that portion of their old analogue photography products that still produced significant, albeit smaller profits.

    If the patent auctions don't produce enough cash, there will be a large number of creditors left being owed a large amount of money. Some of them may be forced into bankruptcy.

    By itself, Kodak's film operations currently produce a profit. If you assign those operations responsibility for some or all of Kodak's legacy costs (particularly unfunded retiree's benefits and to a small extent unfunded pensions) than the accountants will tell you that the film operations don't make a profit.

    I would surmise that Ilford really doesn't want Kodak to fail, because Ilford is relatively very small, and the failure of Kodak will hurt the market Ilford trades into much more than any benefit Ilford may gain from no longer needing to compete with Kodak.

    If you like Kodak products, buy them. You won't hurt Ilford by doing so.
    Matt

    “Photography is a complex and fluid medium, and its many factors are not applied in simple sequence. Rather, the process may be likened to the art of the juggler in keeping many balls in the air at one time!”

    Ansel Adams, from the introduction to The Negative - The New Ansel Adams Photography Series / Book 2

  7. #57
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    Yes, you are most probably right in that Kodak's film division only turns a profit when discounting the massive legacy costs. That is what makes the future look so grim. You can't just disconnect the legacy costs can you? Certainly I am no expert at all this but shafting the retirees is not an option. At least I hope it is not.

    There's no way Kodak's tiny film division today can support the enormous legacy cost of Kodak.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkipA View Post
    The only products from Kodak that are important to me are film and paper. If the company survives but the film and paper division does not, then it ceases to be relevant to me.
    I think we can all agree on that!

  9. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by RattyMouse View Post
    ... the massive legacy costs. That is what makes the future look so grim. ...the legacy costs ... Certainly I am no expert at all this but shafting the retirees is not an option. At least I hope it is not.

    There's no way Kodak's tiny film division today can support the enormous legacy cost of Kodak.
    It seems unlikely, doesn't it. Very sad thought.

  10. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by RattyMouse View Post
    Whoa boy. Calm down. FYI I just bought my first film camera last week. First film camera since about 10 years ago. I dont have any anti-film bias here AT ALL. PERIOD.

    We are participating in a discussion about the longevity of Kodak. You dont like it? Then get out of this thread. If you dont care, as you claim to, then why are you here?

    I bought two rolls of Kodak TMax 400 and a few of Porta400. But I am not going to buy anymore Kodak because I'd rather try to help a healthy film company survive. Ilford deserves more business because they clearly have competent managers. Fujifilm too.
    Look, I am not trying to harp on you, but in the past several months, Industry News has turned into the Ratty Mouse soap box page. I know as well as anyone that Kodak's future in making film or anything for that matter is all but uncertain. But you interject these stabs at Kodak as if you know something we don't.....and I'm sorry, but you are in no position to say if Kodak's film making future is healthy or not, no one really is and I can tell you for a *Fact* that the people I deal with at Kodak are moving forward as if film from Kodak will survive.

    So maybe give it a rest for once, yeah?

    Film needs advocates, not people to constantly dissect it's future...
    Last edited by PKM-25; 08-10-2012 at 09:12 AM. Click to view previous post history.
    "I'm the freak that shoots film. God bless the freaks!" ~ Mainecoonmaniac ~



 

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