This is now the same old bar fight and wildly OT.
That's because it is simple.
Originally Posted by Pioneer
"The business side is easy -- easy! ...if you're any good at math at all, you understand business. It's not its own deep, deep subject. It's not like C++." -- Bill Gates
Actually, the Holga ($30 from Freestyle) and Diana cameras were made for the "really really cheap" camera market, not as an end in themselves. The Holga was made because the company's other products were tanking, in an effort to stave off bankruptcy. Lo and behold, it caught on as an "in" thing.
Originally Posted by Pioneer
The Instagram app is free (but you give away all of your photo rights). The iPhone was paid for anyways, so the cost to the user is effectively $0 and you get everything right now, while each round of fun with the Holga costs nearly $20 and you might wait a week to see what you got from it. Developing 120 film isn't convenient any longer. In the Seattle area there are three labs that still do it, and I didn't like the results from one of them. (so $7 for film, $15 for development & proof sheet, $8 s&h, Panda Lab in Seattle, $30 total, and +$22 for a set of 5x5 prints on Kodak Endura. If using the camera sets you back $55 for every roll, how many times are you going to use the thing for fun?)
Demand = money. Creativity does not necessarily result in money. That's just how it goes. The product has to be purchased for a company to make money. No purchases, no money. End of story.
Originally Posted by Pioneer
As for the Harman Titan pinhole camera, have you used it? I have, and I also use 8x10. Using sheet film in anything other than Quickload/Readyload is not something that is fast or convenient. Not in the slightest. The Titan camera is a neat thing for LF users, or advanced amateurs who want to make the extra effort, but not for what I would regard as the average roll film user. It's not for the average Holga user. The user still has to purchase film holders, and maybe a changing bag, and may need to send the film off for processing. It requires extra effort, much more than using a Holga. A decent press camera can be had for not much more than the Titan.
Yes, artistic coolness must be marketed. Thing is, I haven't seen any marketing for the artistic coolness of film.
I love these discussions.
And yet, the Holga kids (and adults) keep on buying film and shooting it in their cheap, plastic cameras, though it is costing them money. I don't pretend to understand the attraction but it is one of the few "film type" activities that my older grandchildren are all over, and my own kids as well.
I do shoot large format film, but not the Harman Titan, and I totally agree that it is not convenient at all. Again, I don't know why for sure, but I do know that the first run of Harman Titan pinhole cameras were sold out almost as soon as they hit the shelves. And they are still selling like hotcakes. So again, something turned out good.
As for your formula, you are right. Demand does equal money. But it is creativity and imagination that help create and build the demand.
And there are other things. Mention was made of our universities dropping their film programs and turning to digital. I think that is terrible but if you are waiting to catch people's interests until after they hit college, you have already lost. We need to be running programs for our kids. The pre-teens. Put some film cameras in their hands. Let them take same pictures. Get some eco sensitive chemicals and get them into the lab and let them expose and develop their own prints. You want to catch their imaginations early and that magic of seeing that face come to life on a blank piece of white paper is one way to do it. Those are the types of things that can make a difference.
Ain't it great?
Originally Posted by CGW
I'm not so sure it is OT though.
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Pioneer, I've found that when shooting a Holga I'm not hung up on whether or not to photograph something. It's just fun. Take a chance, push the button, no regrets, have some fun. Load another roll. Repeat.
A well-built camera seems to put some barrier of professional ostentatiousness between me and a subject. I tend not to go nuts photographing when I have my Pentax 645 or 6x7. But I do go loopy when I have my Holga.
Maybe what Kodak needs is a Fun division. Not marketing, not photo-evangelism, but fun.
there you go !!
Originally Posted by Brian C. Miller
they should come out with a series of commemorative box cameras
"the original holga "
thanks brian you made my night
I have to agree...make film shooting equivalent to fun....that's the whole deal with the lomography/holga movelment and it seems to be working.
Originally Posted by jnanian
My granddaughters love their little Holgas. I am continually roaming E-Bay looking for expired film deals and I have to ration their film or they will bankrupt me. I actually have to put MY film on top of the shelf or they will start using that. I dread what will happen if they figure out what is in those boxes in the freezer. And I had to get two more daylight developing tanks so they could load and develop their own film. They have gotten pretty good now but in the beginning I have no idea how many rolls of expired 120 I trashed because they didn't get it spooled right. But it don't stop them, they just keep trucking along. If I would have been smart I would have bought them 35mm Holgas.
Originally Posted by cepwin
And waiting? Psshaw. Its like Christmas every week. They can't wait until it is time to develop their rolls of film. Now we have started printing and I am actually looking around for a very cheap enlarger that can handle 6x6 negatives. The way things are going they will be monopolizing my Beseler and I won't get any time on it for my own stuff. What they have absorbed in the last few months took me years to learn, but they suck it up like liittle sponges.
They both have cameras in their cell phones, and they use them all the time too. They take pictures of each other taking pictures for crying out loud. They could care less about digital vs film. To them they really are different things. They like the digital for the instant feedback, but they like the film because of the uncertainty.
But whatever it is they like, you can see the magic in their eyes. You are exactly right Brian. They are having fun! I have to admit, it is making the summer go by quick. Good thing to, I'm not sure those poor Holgas will survive much longer. They are getting a beating. They have tape all over them, not to stop the light leaks, the girls could care less about that, it is what is keeping the poor things together. Next week we are going to build a couple of oatmeal box pinhole cameras so we will soon see if they enjoy that as much.
Kodak Rochester employment
Based on the work I was involved in, I consider the start of 'the digital revolution' at Kodak to be 1990; at that point Kodak Rochester employment was about 42,000. It is presently about 6,000.
Originally Posted by Sirius Glass