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  1. #71
    Steve Smith's Avatar
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    It is common to criticise Chinese manufacture on the basis of seeing very few products and hearsay without realising that you own products which were either made in China or have Chinese made components.

    If a Western company decides to save money buy having production moved to China and the quality suffers, this is wholly the fault of the western company as they should have total control of the manufacturing process.


    Steve.
    "People who say things won't work are a dime a dozen. People who figure out how to make things work are worth a fortune" - Dave Rat.

  2. #72
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    Ratty - China has sure changed as I type this on my beautifully built Foxconn built iphone, but what does it matter if Lucky and/or Shanghai make color film if say one day Fuji and Kodak get out of the color game? I personally think if Fuji and Kodak exit, Ilford would start up color. But if not maybe Rollei will expand more color. I just don't see any of us swooning at Shanghai or Lucky's film when Rollei and possibly Ilford get in the color game. But we need to suspend disbelief anyway cus Fuji is still going....
    Andy

  3. #73
    Steve Smith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zsas View Post
    I personally think if Fuji and Kodak exit, Ilford would start up color.
    I think this is a possibility. If I remember correctly, Ilford had help from Fujifilm in the development of their C41 black and white film. I similar collaboration would be possible for colour.


    Steve.
    "People who say things won't work are a dime a dozen. People who figure out how to make things work are worth a fortune" - Dave Rat.

  4. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by DREW WILEY View Post
    I don't know how the system in Britain works, but here in the US we seem to have mastered the skills of putting students under a mountain of debt while at the same time training them for nonexistent "jobs of the future" rather than realistic trades.
    That is slowly changing here in the US. There are organizations (universities, school districts, State and Federal government departments among others) and industry groups who are working together to build integrated systems to allow teachers to target their classes towards useful careers in realistic trades rather than the nonexistent "jobs of the future." Some of these groups are targeting K-12 education, but the office I work at is saying that most of these groups have forgotten the Career and Technical Ed. piece and that they should be focusing on P-20 (Preschool thru Doctorate), and the industry groups we are working with are on board with this as well.

    What we're working towards is a more personalized education experience. This already exists in the Special Education (with their Individualized Education Plans for the P-12 group) and Early Intervention (through their Individualized Family Service Plans for 0-3 year olds). We're working to expand this to the mainstream students as well so that teachers can do a better job of teaching, and the students can more easily grasp what is being taught, with the goal of preparing them for a career of their choice.

    I could continue to elaborate, but this is horribly OT.
    ME Super

    Shoot more film.
    There are eight ways to put a slide into a projector tray. Seven of them are wrong.

  5. #75

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    I am a professional buyer servicing the construction trade with tools and equipment. I have a national reputation for this kind of trade. Chinese product is almost always vastly inferior to US, Japanese, and esp German goods - in fact, 90% of the time with a very high failure rate and questionable safety. Maybe in something like aerospace, where they have a perceive a military spinoff, or again electronics (with the same potential as well as rapid commercial payoff) they might
    be making better progress. In pharmaceuticals -well, you'd have to be crazy to swallow a pill from
    China, though many people unwittingly do. Product piracy if rife. Patent rights are ignored (often with the complete blessing of bigbox US importers). But at our end, high-quality startup machine shops and manufacturers are failing - losing potential customers - because they can't find skilled labor. Kids just want to play computer games and imagine they'll all become Mark Zuckerberg. Those
    kinds of jobs are getting outsourced even faster.

  6. #76

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    ME - try to find a high school anywhere in this state (still the sixth biggest economy in the WORLD)
    that even offers shop classes anymore. They were once routine. I'll bet that's the case in plenty of
    other states too. Heck, they've got a multi-billion-dollar new football stadium going up across the
    Bay at the same time one of the wealthiest communities in the country won't even fund the roof
    patching on the local grade school, and when the bathrooms have to be locked because they can't
    afford a janitor. And guess who makes the most money at our world-famous university by a factor
    of more than three to one: a nobel prize laureate or the football coach?

  7. #77
    CGW
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    Quote Originally Posted by DREW WILEY View Post
    ME - try to find a high school anywhere in this state (still the sixth biggest economy in the WORLD)
    that even offers shop classes anymore. They were once routine. I'll bet that's the case in plenty of
    other states too. Heck, they've got a multi-billion-dollar new football stadium going up across the
    Bay at the same time one of the wealthiest communities in the country won't even fund the roof
    patching on the local grade school, and when the bathrooms have to be locked because they can't
    afford a janitor. And guess who makes the most money at our world-famous university by a factor
    of more than three to one: a nobel prize laureate or the football coach?
    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/22/bu...pagewanted=all

  8. #78
    CGW
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    Quote Originally Posted by ME Super View Post
    That is slowly changing here in the US. There are organizations (universities, school districts, State and Federal government departments among others) and industry groups who are working together to build integrated systems to allow teachers to target their classes towards useful careers in realistic trades rather than the nonexistent "jobs of the future." Some of these groups are targeting K-12 education, but the office I work at is saying that most of these groups have forgotten the Career and Technical Ed. piece and that they should be focusing on P-20 (Preschool thru Doctorate), and the industry groups we are working with are on board with this as well.

    What we're working towards is a more personalized education experience. This already exists in the Special Education (with their Individualized Education Plans for the P-12 group) and Early Intervention (through their Individualized Family Service Plans for 0-3 year olds). We're working to expand this to the mainstream students as well so that teachers can do a better job of teaching, and the students can more easily grasp what is being taught, with the goal of preparing them for a career of their choice.

    I could continue to elaborate, but this is horribly OT.
    Even more OT: start paying teachers a professional salary and stop firing them because short-sighted, self-interested taxpayers are led to believe public education doesn't work and isn't worth funding.

  9. #79

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    I agree with DREW WILEY and CGW. However, the school district my kids go to is geographically one of the largest in the state (but most certainly not by population). It serves 8 small towns in four counties. It has one of the lowest property tax rates in the state (schools in my state are largely funded by property taxes), but is also financially one of the most stable, and one of the better funded ones.

    It is this way for two reasons: 1) The parents of the district care about their kids' education and 2) The administration manages the money pretty well.
    ME Super

    Shoot more film.
    There are eight ways to put a slide into a projector tray. Seven of them are wrong.

  10. #80
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    OMH.

    Sitting here thinking the entire thread, we just don't know.

    Why speculate? Is it fun? Not really if it keeps us from taking pictures with Kodak, Fuji and Ilford film!!!

    PE

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