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  1. #11
    lxdude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jnanian View Post
    So human-like, it runs like it's trying to make it to the bathroom!
    I do use a digital device in my photographic pursuits when necessary.
    When someone rags on me for using film, I use a middle digit, upraised.

  2. #12
    wildbill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by timparkin View Post
    And yet Fujifilm seem intent on dumping LF film whereas Kodak are doing there best to keep things going...
    yeah, Kodak's doin great. Try to buy slide film in any size, or 8x10 tmy any time of year for less than $7/sheet. I just can't justify it. It'd be another story if someone was paying me to shoot.

    now back to the thread at hand.
    www.vinnywalsh.com

    I know what I want but I just don't know how to go about gettin' it.-Hendrix

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by timparkin View Post
    Yes but there are strong rumours that Fuji want out of E6 in the next few years. At least Kodak are trying to keep their film production alive by making custom runs. I'd rather be able to order it occasionally than not order it at all. It did seem that in the interview Mr President was quite dismissive of film, purposely downplaying it. It would be good if they said "This is where we came from, this is our brand, this is a world heritage product* - we'll do our damndest to keep it alive where possible" as for world heritage product, it's the only directly viewable colour film produced that is likely never to be made again should Fuji stop. The small effort to make a knowledge/equipment transfer to China/Ilford/Whoever would be peanuts in comparison with their turnover.

    Tim
    You know, Fujifilm's CEO DID say exactly what you want. Not recently, but I believe it was when they released their latest medium format film camera, the GF670. I read an interview with the CEO that said something like, "we will continue to make photographic film as long as a single person is shooting it". Something like that. He was making a firm commitment to film shooting as the GF670 camera was making waves.

    I'll try to see if I can pull that quote out of the net somewhere. Been a long time since I saw it.

  4. #14
    Brian C. Miller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by timparkin View Post
    At least Kodak are trying to keep their film production alive by making custom runs. ... The small effort to make a knowledge/equipment transfer to China/Ilford/Whoever would be peanuts in comparison with their turnover.

    Tim
    Kodak doesn't make custom runs. They make custom cuttings from master rolls. If they made custom runs, then somebody could stump up a few million for a run of Kodachrome or E6. But they won't ever do that again, not unless they're bought out by somebody freakin' rich who just happens to seriously love film. I've never heard of any psycho-rich businessman like that.

    Moving film production from one plant to another is an investment of millions, not just emailing the recipe. It's not a paltry thing. It was a major problem for Kodak to do this within their own company. There are so many secret/proprietary chemicals, processes, and formulas that it's just not going to happen. If Fuji E6 goes bye-bye, nobody is going to pick up the pieces. There's just not enough of a market for any investment to be recovered. Fuji couldn't do it for a B&W emulsion. Fuji originally made 35mm movie film, and I'm sure that they'll keep making roll film. However, I have doubts as to whether they will be making sheet film as the market winds down.

    Here's some quotes from the article:
    (Where then is your business focus?)
    Our core competence lies in research, development and technology. We
    come from the film business, and we are a film company.

    The movie business is our root, and this will remain so. But we
    redefined the business. In times of massive digital photography the
    classic film almost disappeared from the market. Just look what
    happened to our former competitors.

    Well, the business of photographic films is very complex and very
    complicated. Just look what techniques and technology are necessary to
    produce film. Film has over a dozen layers of paint applied to a
    substrate. Not one layer is allowed to pass into the other. We're
    talking about precision work with about a hundred highly functional
    materials. That's a major technical achievement. It takes experience,
    methods and patents, which can then be used beyond the photographic
    film.
    Last edited by Brian C. Miller; 07-27-2012 at 12:44 PM. Click to view previous post history. Reason: more stuff

  5. #15
    Ken Nadvornick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian C. Miller View Post
    But they won't ever do that again, not unless they're bought out by somebody freakin' rich who just happens to seriously love film. I've never heard of any psycho-rich businessman like that.
    Paul Allen.

    Ever been to his aircraft hanger at Paine Field? Those incredibly detailed restorations all have drip pans under them and are ready to fly every summer weekend. To bad he doesn't like film as much as B-25s (Flying Heritage Collection), NFL football (Seahawks), NBA basketball (Trail Blazers), and Jimi Hendrix (EMP). THAT all adds up to real money in my book. I also thought I read somewhere that he plays a pretty serviceable guitar.

    Rumor has it he's a pretty decent fellow, too. Don't know if he owns any film cameras.

    Maybe we should ask??



    Ken
    "They are the proof that something was there and no longer is. Like a stain. And the stillness of them is boggling. You can turn away but when you come back they’ll still be there looking at you."

    — Diane Arbus, March 15, 1971, in response to a request for a brief statement about photographs

  6. #16
    M.A.Longmore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Nadvornick View Post
    Paul Allen.

    Ever been to his aircraft hanger at Paine Field? Those incredibly detailed restorations all have drip pans under them and are ready to fly every summer weekend. To bad he doesn't like film as much as B-25s (Flying Heritage Collection), NFL football (Seahawks), NBA basketball (Trail Blazers), and Jimi Hendrix (EMP). THAT all adds up to real money in my book. I also thought I read somewhere that he plays a pretty serviceable guitar.

    Rumor has it he's a pretty decent fellow, too. Don't know if he owns any film cameras.

    Maybe we should ask??



    Ken
    .
    Maybe " We " Should Send Him An Honorary APUG Membership, And And SRT-202 With A 58mm f 1.2 Attached !

    I'm Just Saying ...

    Ron
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  7. #17
    Rudeofus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian C. Miller View Post
    Film has over a dozen layers of paint applied to a substrate.
    Ouch ...
    Trying to be the best of whatever I am, even if what I am is no good.

  8. #18
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Two interesting things here.

    If you consider all Kodak production and compare it to Fuji, (including motion picture) then Kodak far outproduces Fuji. BUT, Fuji has much better marketing and distribution, as Kodak seems to have forsaken all of that. See Bob Shanebrook's book for pictures of the huge pallets of film going out the door! Well, it is down a lot, but still going out the door.

    And, Kodak is willing to make custom runs if paid for. The problem is not making Kodachrome, it is getting a process for it going. That will double the price.

    And then too... Ever hear of Japan Incorporated? The Japanese industry is often supported by the government just like the recent Obama subsidies. Imagine what would happen to EK if the government revived them by giving them an infusion of a few billion dollars.

    PE

  9. #19
    Brian C. Miller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    And then too... Ever hear of Japan Incorporated? The Japanese industry is often supported by the government just like the recent Obama subsidies. Imagine what would happen to EK if the government revived them by giving them an infusion of a few billion dollars.

    PE
    Maybe not so much anymore.
    Japan Inc.’s Year of Disgrace
    The agony of Japan Inc.
    Naoto Kan and the End of 'Japan Inc.'
    How Organized Crime Infested Japan Inc. - TIME (Olympus scandal)

    Japan seems to be hurting very hard due to Japan, Inc.

    Politicians follow the money. They throw money at things that "cannot fail" but should (banks, insurance firms), and take money away from things that shouldn't fail (science, like the Texas particle accelerator). We won't see any government help for Kodak. But if Fujifilm was in dire straits like Kodak, I'm not sure that the Japanese government would prop them up. The output is small, and I'm not sure it would be seen as one of those, ah, what is it, national treasures? Not that the US treasures much (except as noted above), but I'm not sure that one little building producing 35mm would be kept in business by Japanese government subsidy.

  10. #20
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Brian;

    All of what you have posted is correct, but don't you think that there has been some sort of "protection" before those events? Even protective trade agreements will change the balance. If the US is hostile to exports but friendly to foreign imports, and if the opposite were true, then this would illustrate the problem.

    AAMOF, Japan has been supporting the photo industry as one of their prime markets and have established a cabinet ministry for photography. They have several universities devoted to photographic science and engineering. Many Fuji and Konica engineers came from these schools and have PhD degrees. No university in the US offers such a degree.

    So, there are many levels of support.

    PE

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