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Thread: Fotokemika ...

  1. #41

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    Dear Sal,

    As always : Thank you for buying, using and valuing ILFORD Photo products :

    Its why I print on GALERIE... hope you enjoy your wholeplate DELTA when it comes.

    Simon. ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :

  2. #42

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    Simon,

    Is there any way for Ilford to discuss acquiring know-how of Fotokemika's infrared emulsion? It's the last remaining
    extended IR emulsion on the market and it will be a great loss for all our community if it disappeared like HIE did. Any chance of that happening? Please?

    Eugene.

  3. #43

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    Dear Eugene,

    Firstly, whilst we see lots of rumours etc we actually do not know what is the status of FOTOKEMICA, so lets hope all of this a purely 'academic' discussion, and the products that you use from them will continue to be available.

    As to IR emulsions, you are spot on, each film has great value, especially to those who use it. The problem with IR emulsions is that just not enough people use them I'm afraid. We are more than technically able to develop, coat and produce a full IR emulsion, the problem is that we would never get a return on our investment in developing the product and the time sourcing and approving the raw materials required, ask yourself this, would you pay $ 15 to $ 17 + for a single film?

    IR is also especially difficult to sell through the supply chain, as it has a shorter date life than conventional emulsions and really needs proper storage.

    We do sell an extended red film in SFX, in 35mm and in 120 and yes, it is not IR, but this product is part of our current portfolio and therefore is part of our commitment that we will not discontinue any product in the current portfolio.

    Probably not what you wanted to hear, sorry.

    Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited

  4. #44

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    Simon,

    I'm afraid I expected that answer from you.

    My concern is that it is more than academic discussion. Hearing from a friend in Croatia who went to the plant just yesterday, it's more than just some papers - they are considering shutting down film production as well.

    Anyway, those of us who still shoot infrared are already painfully aware of the cost. The IR film is already $13 a roll, so $15-17 is really not much more than that. I realize that IR is not a good product for a supply chain because of its short life. At best, I was hoping for an on-demand production once every two-three years, maybe bundled with the custom large format runs. Anyway, my freezer is getting full with very expensive film that is known to not last very long. Ouch

    Eugene.

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon R Galley View Post
    Dear Eugene,

    Firstly, whilst we see lots of rumours etc we actually do not know what is the status of FOTOKEMICA, so lets hope all of this a purely 'academic' discussion, and the products that you use from them will continue to be available.

    As to IR emulsions, you are spot on, each film has great value, especially to those who use it. The problem with IR emulsions is that just not enough people use them I'm afraid. We are more than technically able to develop, coat and produce a full IR emulsion, the problem is that we would never get a return on our investment in developing the product and the time sourcing and approving the raw materials required, ask yourself this, would you pay $ 15 to $ 17 + for a single film?

    IR is also especially difficult to sell through the supply chain, as it has a shorter date life than conventional emulsions and really needs proper storage.

    We do sell an extended red film in SFX, in 35mm and in 120 and yes, it is not IR, but this product is part of our current portfolio and therefore is part of our commitment that we will not discontinue any product in the current portfolio.

    Probably not what you wanted to hear, sorry.

    Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited

  5. #45
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    Eugene;

    IR sensitizing dyes do not keep well either, and are very costly. So, the raw material must be purchased at great expense, and then must be used in a given short period of time. The dye gradually decomposes in storage and thus gradually changes the quality of the film made for it at any given time, just as the raw film changes sitting on dealers shelves.

    PE

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon R Galley View Post
    raw materials required, ask yourself this, would you pay $ 15 to $17 + for a single film?
    Per roll for real IR? No problem. I've been paying $15 per sheet of Kodak Portra 8x10. What I'll miss is IR in sheet film. Again.

    When Konica was making IR film, they made it in a run once a year, not the year round. That could be a valid model for Ilford, too. When the Konica run came out, it sold out fast. You bought your film for the year, and that was it. Another thing to consider is how many people would put up money in advance for the yearly run. Kieth Canham takes preoders for custom cuttings of Kodak sheet films. What about taking a preorder for a master roll of IR? Like a Kickstarter project? (I don't mean actually using Kickstarter, just that sort of a model.)

    The one thing that bugs me about this "no profit in IR" is that Efke apparently was making a profit with it. Why else would they have been making it? And available in 8x10 sheet film, no less. Did they have some sort of extra-cheap IR dye? Or was is producing the dye a labor-intensive process, so it's economical to produce in eastern Europe? I dunno.

  7. #47
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    Now can we hear from the Elephant in the room? EK.
    Everytime I find a film or paper that I like, they discontinue it. - Paul Strand - Aperture monograph on Strand

  8. #48
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    Indeed. From Freestyle (some other sources may be cheaper) Efke IR820 and IR820Aura are $12.99 a roll in 35mm and 120, a bit over $2 a sheet in 4x5 (I did not know they made it in 8x10 and can't find that listed at B&H either.)

    So would I pay $17-$18 for a roll of true IR film with Ilford quality control? You bet! Likewise, I'd probably pay $3 a sheet for 4x5, especially if it was faster, deeper IR stuff like the old Kodak HIE. That would be awesome. Hell, I'd probably pay $20 a roll and $5 a sheet, at least for some of it. I wouldn't shoot a ton of it at those prices, but I would probably buy a couple hundred bucks worth if it were offered yearly. Should keep a year in the freezer without issue, I'd think.

  9. #49
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    Although I have to admit I have no experience with IR film, I think $17 to $20 a roll for a specialty film is OK. You don't go out and blow a roll of this stuff for vacation shots, after all. And I would not see one or two runs a year as a real problem either. If it's possible to make shorter masters or coat IR onto the end of a regular production run, that might also be a consideration.

    I surely want to see Ilford continuing to make the great products they sell to us at reasonable prices, but I can see where some additional specialty items (IR films, special color products, whatever), understandably sold at a premium price, could be a good adder to their product line.
    All this has happened before, and all this will happen again.

  10. #50
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    Of course I don't want Ilford to do anything that would be risky enough to endanger the great products they already make. But if additional products can be profitable - IR film would be nice. Even if Efke sticks around the QC has not been good and the IR response is limited compared to the old HIE.



 

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