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  1. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by wblynch View Post
    Doesn't have to be the "Great Depression" to be a depression.

    If you've lost your home, your job, your life savings and had your pension stripped away right in front of you, you would consider it a depression.

    A great many people find themselves in that position.

    Face it, the US has stripped the working class of most of it's wealth and income.

    Has to affect frivolous purchases -- like film.
    If you lose your job, it's a recession. If I lose my job, it's a depression.

    Since you don't like what the words really mean, but you have a "feeling", then you want us to change the the whole damned English language to fit your "feeling". It's exactly this kind of mutton headed thinking that got us into this predicament. Back in the 80's I got laid off 3 times, as a sole breadwinner with a wife, a baby, and a home to keep together. It scared the living shit out of me, but I never once blamed anybody else for my problems or waited for the government to come and save me. I went and did any damned thing I had to do to keep body and soul together.

    My parents, and my wife's parents, lived through a real depression. You couldn't BUY a job. People died of starvation. When I think of how hard their lives were, it makes me cry. I know I'm not half the man my dad was because of this.

    No matter what, you've got to get up, leave the cave, kill something, and drag it home.

  2. #42
    wiltw's Avatar
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    The analogy...Just as railroads failed to understand that they were in the 'transportation industry', they failed to progress in a way to accomodate new means of transportation that were faster (airplanes) or more flexible in where they could go (trucks).

    Kodak failed to adequately recognize that they were in the 'imaging industry' and that electronic cameras could get news photos diseminated faster, that digital media could provide a suitable alternative to film cameras, and that cell phones would have cameras in them and eliminate the need for more conventional cameras (even digital ones). Where they saw the handwriting on the wall in medical imaging, with a presence in that area for over a decade, they missed that movie producers and studios would abandon film distribution for the economies of digital distribution. They concentrated on the wrong aspects of digital medical/dental, and spent money on integrated medical image archiving, but did so too late, where established vendors had established stronger footholds. They failed to innovate digital Xray systems for dental applications and body xray, where they could sell devices to dentists and doctors and hospitals...they left the money on the table to traditional medical imaging equipment companies who had CT scanners and MRI scanners, and left money on the table to the new dental xray startups.

    They made tons of money via supplying film for movie shooting and movie prints, but they absolutely failed to see the money that could have been made in designing digital projection systems for movie theaters.
    Last edited by wiltw; 08-23-2012 at 01:00 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  3. #43

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    It looks like it has been difficult for Fujifilm too:
    http://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/fujiy/interactive-chart
    Under the chart click on max, it gives the share price 1992-2012.

  4. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by wblynch View Post
    Opinions...

    2) Kodak abandoned film advertising and promotion. Adding fuel to the perception that, "no one makes (or uses) film any more".

    I still don't understand this, never will.

  5. #45
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    In most MBA programs, they teach a course with a title something like "Destroy Your Own Business". The point of this course is to teach the bright young business leaders about the need to be sensitive to trends that jeopardize their core businesses. The basic idea is that business leaders should be constantly looking for new business opportunities that represent significant threats, and should invest in those businesses.

    I think the problem is that the geniuses at Kodak slept late on the day that their professor gave the lecture about making sure that the new business includes a role for your company.

    Yes, Kodak invented digital photography, but they naively assumed that because they were the industry leader in conventional photography, that role would automatically fall to them when the market shifted to digital. That was a monumentally bad assumption.
    Louie

  6. #46

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    Dear Pro-Pixel...

    Todays spooky fact.......

    Everyone at ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited knows well the story of Knut... and we have a very nice mosaic in our local town of Knutsford to celebrate the fact...as our town is named after Knut.

    Simon ILFORD photo / HARMAN technology Limited :

  7. #47
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prof_Pixel View Post
    Many of use in Kodak in the '80s and early '90s understood the transition that was coming. Several of Kodak's early digital products (RFS-2035, Premiere Image Enhancement System, Prism, and Photo CD for example) were hybrid products, meant to ease the transition into digital.

    Film was (and still is) a very mature product that has a manufacturing process that has been perfected over many years and had (has) a high profit margin. The profit margins on equipment were never good and digital cameras and equipment looked to have low profit margins as well.

    Kodak lacked the managers with imaging industry vision to figure out how to make the transition work (APS was a dreadful failure) and figure out what the new Kodak was going to look like. Note, this required a willingness to give up some short term profit to gain future profit and the managers pay incentive plans made that unlikely.

    A very good insiders view point, add to that Matt King's comments about distribution and that's about right.

    As an example of how little the sales and marketing departments at Kodak understand their product Kodak in the UK were sill trying to sell K64 to dealers after Dwayne's had ceased processing Kodachrome.

    A major issue with Kodak films is that in many countries distribution of consumer colour films and minilab consumables has been quite good but with the loss of B&W papers distribution of B&W papers and chemistry became poor.

    The advantage Ilford has is they sell their own products, film, paper & chemistry, and distribute for Paterson so a slaes team has more to sell a retail outlet.

    Kodak's major disadvantage now is they sell to Office equipment suppliers/computer stores for their Digital consumer printers, minilabs etc, but if a minilab's using Fuji/Agaf etc materials then there's nothing they can sell them. They have very little to sell to an average camera store any longer.

    Kodak still have good people in the coating division but the coporate structure lets them down badly.

    Ian

  8. #48

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    I wonder how much business Kodak has lost to people blabbering on the Internet instead of taking pictures......I bet it is a ton.

  9. #49
    Ken Nadvornick's Avatar
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    For a lot of people, these threads are like therapy sessions.

    Kodak's situation has been beyond its film customers control at any level for a long time now. It's fate is out of our hands. No matter how much or how little film we purchase, it won't matter. The forces buffeting Kodak are huge and far beyond us at this point. It's like seeing a massive storm throw a cargo ship up onto the rocks and beat it to pieces. All you can do is cringe, cover your face, and watch between your fingers. But you can't stop the storm. Or save the ship.

    Ken
    "They are the proof that something was there and no longer is. Like a stain. And the stillness of them is boggling. You can turn away but when you come back they’ll still be there looking at you."

    — Diane Arbus, March 15, 1971, in response to a request for a brief statement about photographs

  10. #50
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PKM-25 View Post
    I wonder how much business Kodak has lost to people blabbering on the Internet instead of taking pictures......I bet it is a ton.
    Some of us have been extrememely frustrated trying to get Kodak films, in my case Tmax 100. For the past 6 years I've had to fly with all the films I thought I'd use before my next UK visit home when I run out I have to replace locally, postage from abroad has proved unreliable (50% of packages not arriving) or just not possible when your visiting countries for the first time.

    So I speak from first hand experience of finding it near impossible to buy the Tmax 100 & 400 films I required in Turkey, Chile, Peru etc. I've shot Tmax since it was released and after APX100 was discontinued in sheet film it became my only B&W film. I've found Ilford films everywhere and more surprisingly Foma so I had no real option other than switch.

    It's no secret that when Kodak subcontracted distribution around the world they lost a lot of business. In the UK Sangers took over distribution and ended up going bankrupt, the new distributors are the ex-employees from the Kodak distribution department and they know what they are doing and are efficient.

    The bottom line is if I walk into my nearest UK photo-store there's no Kodak products (analog or digital), but there are Ilford & Fuji.

    Ian



 

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