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  1. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by pbromaghin View Post
    ...Since you don't like what the words really mean, but you have a "feeling", then you want us to change the the whole damned English language to fit your "feeling". It's exactly this kind of mutton headed thinking that got us into this predicament....
    Hey Dude, I said at the beginning it was my opinion.

    It's not thinking that got us here. It's an orchestrated destruction, based on lies and manipulation that's been occurring since 1981.

    I should add that personally my career and finances have been great. I have survived the turmoil based on skill, talent and awareness of my field and the ability to adapt.

    I find myself in the top 4% of earners in America.

    That does not mean I can't understand or care about the struggles of others.
    Last edited by wblynch; 08-23-2012 at 12:37 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    - Bill Lynch

  2. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by PKM-25 View Post
    I wonder how much business Kodak has lost to people blabbering on the Internet instead of taking pictures......I bet it is a ton.
    That is a business loss that is certainly not unique to Kodak!

  3. #53

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    I'd just like to say thanks to everyone who's responded to my questions about the decline of Kodak, obviously this site isn't the only source I've used for my research (I've spent a lot of time trawling through the various retrospective reports about the company written since January as well as interviewing the owner of my local photography shop amongst other things) but APUG came to mind (even though I admit it had been a long time since I logged on ) as a good place to get lot of expertise and opinions all at once, and it hasn't let me down. Thanks!
    PS; This has reminded me just what a usefull community APUG is, I'll try to log on more often from now on

  4. #54
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    In short, Kodak got into this mess because it made decisions from it's "heart" instead of it's "head".

    It lost objectivity, and succumbed to fantasy.

    It ignored market forces.

    It lost it's edge with digital technology.

    It tried to be all things analoge and digital.

    I would guess that there was too much Group-Think there and not enough leadership from the top.

    Perhaps one can add to the list arrogance, paralysis from analysis too.
    Coming back home to my film roots. Canon EOS-3 SLR, Canon EOS 1V SLR, 580ex flash, and 5D DSLR shooter. Prime lens only shooter.

  5. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by SilverGlow View Post
    In short, Kodak got into this mess because it made decisions from it's "heart" instead of it's "head".

    It lost objectivity, and succumbed to fantasy.

    It ignored market forces.

    It lost it's edge with digital technology.

    It tried to be all things analoge and digital.

    I would guess that there was too much Group-Think there and not enough leadership from the top.

    Perhaps one can add to the list arrogance, paralysis from analysis too.
    I'm not sure any of this is true at all. Kodak grew to an enormous sized company in the 80's. A company of that size needs profits, lots and lots of profits. Profits to sustain the beast. Is there any evidence at all that a digital company makes the profits that are needed to keep Kodak alive?

    Out of ALL the camera companies, only Nikon is a stand alone camera company. Every last other one has far more revenue from other streams of products. I seriously doubt Kodak could have sustained itself with enough profit even if their cameras were successful. The entire paradigm of Kodak's existence went obsolete. That is what Kodak had to fight against.

    Look at Fujifilm. They are a survivor. How did they survive? They got into totally different businesses. Medical devices, flat panel coatings, pharmaceuticals, personal care products, office machines, industrial scanners, and information management. Fujifilm only survived by shrinking their film business, which is now at 1% of its former size.

  6. #56
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    There are only about 3 or 4 members of APUG who were at Kodak during this era. To state what was going on implies that you were there. You just don't know any more than any of us really do.

    PE

  7. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by RattyMouse View Post
    Look at Fujifilm. They are a survivor. How did they survive? They got into totally different businesses. Medical devices, flat panel coatings, pharmaceuticals, personal care products, office machines, industrial scanners, and information management. Fujifilm only survived by shrinking their film business, which is now at 1% of its former size.
    Kodak was a player in most of those areas you mentioned, but sold those business units off over the last 25 years.

  8. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by Prof_Pixel View Post
    Kodak was a player in most of those areas you mentioned, but sold those business units off over the last 25 years.

    Very true.

  9. #59
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    I was one of those 3 or 4 at Kodak in the 80's. It was a great place to work and they were very, very good to me. Yes, the top level management was completely clueless (starting about 3 levels up from where I was as an engineer in the corporate hierarchy) but whatever Kodak may or may not be, I can't bitch about them as an employer at that time. Not all at Kodak was stupid, not at all, and I worked with a lot of first class people who damn well knew what they were doing.

    People should really stick with what you really know. Don't shoot from the hip and don't guess at what you don't know. End of lecture.

    Look at Fujifilm. They are a survivor. How did they survive? They got into totally different businesses. Medical devices, flat panel coatings, pharmaceuticals, personal care products, office machines, industrial scanners, and information management. Fujifilm only survived by shrinking their film business, which is now at 1% of its former size.
    Kodak was, and in some cases may still be, in each and every one of these businesses with outstanding products. They couldn't market them for SH%$ but that goes to the issues at 343 State Street. In many cases they bailed out before the market actually took off. An example would be 8mm video. EK practically invented it and were in and out of the market before Sony and the other players that really capitalized on it showed up. Pharmaceuticals were another case of not waiting for the plan to come together. Of course, the Sterling/Winthrop mess was Whitmore's disastrous legacy. (Since I see that he has passed in 2004 I will keep my personal comments about the man out of my ramble.)

    In some cases EK's products were just before their time. In most cases it was seriously screwed up top-level management that couldn't move anything if it wasn't film.

    So I suppose I still have some loyalty to my long ago employer.
    Last edited by kb3lms; 08-28-2012 at 11:07 PM. Click to view previous post history. Reason: Tool out some unjustified criticism
    All this has happened before, and all this will happen again.

  10. #60
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    If you really want a little insight at some of the things that were happening and some of the thinking in the late 80's and early 90's at Kodak and what helped to drive them to where they are today, read this 1989 article from The New York Times. I remember this announcement like it was yesterday. It concerns when the top-level management "holy triumverate" of Whitmore, Samper and Chandler were ousted by the board of directors and replaced by just Whitmore as CEO, president and grand poobah.

    http://www.nytimes.com/1989/12/09/bu...anted=2&src=pm

    As you can see from the article, Mr. Whitmore was most concerned with reining in all that nasty product development in the name of "core strengths and values" and squeezing everything possible out of Kodak Film. And Wall Street was demanding just that. Chandler and Samper, IMHO and others may not agree, were busy trying to architect future lines of business for the company. They knew the "digital demise" was coming. They weren't completely stupid as individuals. I met Mr. Chandler and asked that very question of him regarding how Kodak was planning to deal with the obvious development of digital imaging. However, the investors would have none of that and their insistence has come back to haunt them today. Where would Kodak be if Whitmore hadn't caved to Wall Street? We'll never know, of course, but what we do know is that all the cost cutting and squeezing every damn dime possible out of those yellow boxes didn't prove a thing in the end.

    In my opinion, the moment in time documented in this news article is the notable starting point when everything went wrong for Kodak.
    All this has happened before, and all this will happen again.



 

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