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  1. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Smith View Post
    My dentist uses X ray film and has no intention of changing to digital. There's no point when what you have already works fine.


    Steve.
    That's great for cheap dentists like yours, but for patients, that's bad news. Digital X-ray images are manipulated in all kinds of ways by software that dramatically increase the diagnostic value that they provide. Overlays, expansions, rotations, image adjustments, the sky is the limit with today's computer hardware.

    I would not step foot in any doctor or dentist office that didnt use the most modern technology to care for their patients. Hell, we pay enough for it.

  2. #52

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    Our local hospital has been retrofitted with digital x-ray, why do you think other locations aren't doing the same?

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by RattyMouse View Post
    That's great for cheap dentists like yours, but for patients, that's bad news.
    If it shows the dentist all he or she needs to see then it's not a problem.


    Steve.
    "People who say things won't work are a dime a dozen. People who figure out how to make things work are worth a fortune" - Dave Rat.

  4. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by bwfans View Post
    When APUGgers unite and buy up all the Kodak film and put it in the freezers, do they become the biggest hoarder group on the planet for the Kodak film?

    We are not beating hoarders, instead we are becoming hoarders ourselves .
    darn right! I just bought another 100 feet of arista 400 from freestyle -- that's tri-x, you know. Now have about 500 feet of that plus an equal amount of 100.

    And everyone SHOULD buy an extra 100 feet of some Ilford film right now to give that company a boost.

    then throw that roll away so you have to buy more immediately as well. Maybe we should all just send $20 to Harmon and be done with it?

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Smith View Post
    If it shows the dentist all he or she needs to see then it's not a problem.


    Steve.
    Agreed.

    It is simply about reaching the needed threshold for the job at hand.

    One of the biggest problems of many systems for me, is that there is too many ways to manipulate data and more detail than necessary becomes required input. I'm not being specific to photography but the logic applies there too.
    Mark Barendt, Beaverton, OR

    "We do not see things the way they are. We see things the way we are." Anaïs Nin

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian C. Miller View Post
    It all still comes down to supply and demand. The last stats I heard about Kodak film was that the commercial side (movie film) is 95% of the business, and the consumer side (everything else) is 5% of the business. They dropped their entire E-6 product line. (I am not hoarding Tri-X, yet. I'm going after the remaining E100G and E100VS!) Kodak will be supplying film for the movie industry through 2015. And then what?

    What shape will the movie industry be in three years down the road? How many theater complexes will be all digital in 2015? (The local cinemas are mostly digital, big exception for Pacific Science Center IMAX)

    The real question is, how long will we have Tri-X?
    Exactly. Watched the documentary "Side by Side", by Keanu Reeves, last night. Highly recommended for anyone to understand where film really stands. If Kodak will start bailing out on cine and/or deliver questionable product, or supply becomes an issue because of their current ordeal, the demise will accelerate beyond recovery.

  7. #57

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    The only way I can see good coming out of Kodak's attempted sale is if some sort of angel investor or group buys it up, and also hires all the current film/paper group staff, to keep continuity. Then funds it with plenty of $ for R&D and marketeering/advertising, to bring the image of Kodak films back in the public eye. Something along the lines of the Impossible Project (only with much better actual products to sell, e.g. current-quality Kodak stuff. And with way more funding.) I doubt any of the current players (Ilford, Fuji) would be interested, for reasons already mentioned.

    The value of the film/paper business is in the existing coating lines, and the people who run them. Despite what people may think, the 'brand', and the names of products (tri-x, et. al) are worth a whole lot less than the ability to actually continue producing the product. I could give a rat's ass what it's called, but as long as the quality of the product is the same, that's what matters. There's plenty of examples of empty-shell "brands" that were once great: RCA, polaroid, etc. - having the name doesn't mean squat really, when the products are crap.

    So here's hoping that if it sells, it sells to someone who knows what they are doing enough to not screw it up, hire the right people, and keep the existing products in place at the same level of quality. That's a lot to ask, esp. considering the asshats currently running Kodak (perez, etc), but hopefully it comes to pass. In the meantime, I've already started stocking up. I figure sheet film will be the first to go if supplies get interrupted or cut. There's nothing like Ektar or Portra out there, and it would be a crying shame if those disappear.

  8. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Smith View Post
    If it shows the dentist all he or she needs to see then it's not a problem.


    Steve.
    And if it doesnt? Then what? Run out and buy a digital X ray machine? There's a reason why X Ray film is dying and it is because the alternative offers vastly more powerful diagnostic ability.

  9. #59

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    What is the sale price and how does that compare to the liabilities as a result of past activity (e.g. pensions, environmental, buildings dilapidations etc) and potential future liabilities if production continues as is, at the same locations - that is going to be an important question for any buyer in addition to what future film demand holds.

    Putting emotions aside I wouldn't go near it unless you could buy without the existing liabilities, which is difficult as many of the environmental liabilities for example are tied in with the current factories and ongoing production. With cinema duplication decreasing each year, in five to ten years time you run the risk of being a much smaller company unable to sustain the current overheads or honour the liabilities unless you can buy it without those at the start.

    From what I can see as a mere observer, the Ilford Management buyout appears to have been a success, but it must be remembered that compared to Kodak's film side it is/was a much leaner company with a cost base now well matching its current c£24m (2011) annual turnover. I can't see that sort of success being emulated easily by the buyers of Kodak's film business unless there is some dramatic downsizing or cherry picking of lines/production resource by a buyer to better match costs with realistic long run demand and turnover.

  10. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by markbarendt View Post
    Agreed.

    It is simply about reaching the needed threshold for the job at hand.

    One of the biggest problems of many systems for me, is that there is too many ways to manipulate data and more detail than necessary becomes required input. I'm not being specific to photography but the logic applies there too.
    In medicine you dont know what the threshold is. That's the problem and why it is utterly foolish to rely on film X-rays. Disease is not predictable in many cases and new technology is needed to succeed in many cases. A former coworker of mine is alive today because of a single drug that came on the market just 6 months before she contracted a fatal form of cancer. There are people alive today because X-ray imaging is vastly better than it was during the film era.



 

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