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  1. #101
    zsas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michel Hardy-Vallée View Post
    I'm afraid ADOX does not even use "silver rich" in the way you say (as a synonymous of "not-tabular"). Look: So given all that has been said, yes I maintain that "silver rich" is a misnomer, and a gimmick. As a matter of fact, Efke films (i.e. the old ADOX films), which used to be called "silver rich" were the first thin-emulsion films, so they were actually silver-POOR, compared to the previous generations of films, a.k.a. thick emulsion films. Please quote your reference for the so-called "common knowledge" that silver-rich means "cubic."
    Michel in my original post above I cited my references. Here they are again:
    The Darkroom Cookbook, Third Edition, by Steve Anchell
    Basics Photography: Working in Black & White By David Prakel

    Prakel said that tabular films, when printed, "...have a different look, when printed up, from an old-fashioned silver-rich film such as Kodak Tri-X Pan..."
    Anchell says that silver rich, "...usually indicates an older formulation."


    In my post above I had a link to Prakel's book, here it is again:
    http://books.google.com/books?id=x4q...abular&f=false
    Andy

  2. #102
    Richard Sintchak (rich815)'s Avatar
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    New at Photokina 2012: ADOX SILVERMAX 35mm film 135/36

    zsas, it's beyond just a descriptor to highlight a factually different aspect, they use it to strongly imply its superior. Like saying, this car is red. Red cars run better and last longer.

    "SILVERMAX has an increased silver-content compared to regular films.
    This enables him to built up more DMAX and reproduce up to 14 zones in our dedicated SILVERMAX Developer.
    This way SILVERMAX catches it all for you: brightest highlights and deepest shaddows."
    -----------------------

    "Well, my photos are actually much better than they look..."

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  3. #103
    Michel Hardy-Vallée's Avatar
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    The problem with Anchell is that he misinterprets a lot of information. I have his cookbooks, and what he says about cubic v. tabular grains is not exactly sound science, even though he has a lot of otherwise useful information. Prakel makes the same mistake as Efke: TXP is a modern, thin-emulsion film. Not a thick-emulsion film. One of the reasons why silver amounts went down was increased efficiency of emulsions, not just cheapness.
    Quote Originally Posted by zsas View Post
    Michel in my original post above I cited my references. Here they are again:The Darkroom Cookbook, Third Edition, by Steve AnchellBasics Photography: Working in Black & White By David PrakelPrakel said that tabular films, when printed, "...have a different look, when printed up, from an old-fashioned silver-rich film such as Kodak Tri-X Pan..."Anchell says that silver rich, "...usually indicates an older formulation."In my post above I had a link to Prakel's book, here it is again:http://books.google.com/books?id=x4q...abular&f=false
    Using film since before it was hip.


    "One of the most singular characters of the hyposulphites, is the property their solutions possess of dissolving muriate of silver and retaining it in considerable quantity in permanent solution" — Sir John Frederick William Herschel, "On the Hyposulphurous Acid and its Compounds." The Edinburgh Philosophical Journal, Vol. 1 (8 Jan. 1819): 8-29. p. 11

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  4. #104
    Jerevan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by georg16nik View Post
    Its fun getting too giggly too quick, isn't it?
    What if Adox found a way to make it possible?
    Well, if they did - congratulations!

    As for me being disparaging about the advertisment text - obviously I should have expressed myself in a more eloquent way in my first post.
    Last edited by Jerevan; 09-16-2012 at 02:07 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    “Do your work, then step back. The only path to serenity.” - Lao Tzu

  5. #105
    georg16nik's Avatar
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    Henning have already explained it in this thread that the Silvermax spectral sensitivity is identical to Agfa APX 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Henning Serger View Post
    ... The film is currently in the test phase here in my lab. First results look good. The spectral sensivity of this film is identical to the Agfa APX 100. Best regards, Henning
    Same way as Scala 200X emulsion is based on the APX 100 emulsion. So, Adox Silvermax, Agfa Scala 200X and Agfa APX 100 share absolutely identical spectral sensitivity. Adox Silvermax sports modified APX 100 emulsion, so does Agfa Scala 200X, so what? The fact that those 3 films share identical spectral sensitivity does not mean they performs the same.

  6. #106

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    Quote Originally Posted by rich815 View Post
    zsas, it's beyond just a descriptor to highlight a factually different aspect, they use it to strongly imply its superior. Like saying, this car is red. Red cars run better and last longer.

    "SILVERMAX has an increased silver-content compared to regular films.
    This enables him to built up more DMAX and reproduce up to 14 zones in our dedicated SILVERMAX Developer.
    This way SILVERMAX catches it all for you: brightest highlights and deepest shaddows."
    Kodak makes claims of superiority of its tabular grained films, reduction in grain and increase in resolving power, based on its characteristics. Does this bother you too?

  7. #107
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    New at Photokina 2012: ADOX SILVERMAX 35mm film 135/36

    Quote Originally Posted by rich815 View Post
    Call me a skeptic but I'm waiting for proof it's not APX100...
    How it be bad if it were to be APX100, perhaps in a red dress instead of blues jeans.
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  8. #108
    Richard Sintchak (rich815)'s Avatar
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    New at Photokina 2012: ADOX SILVERMAX 35mm film 135/36

    Quote Originally Posted by michaelbsc View Post
    How it be bad if it were to be APX100, perhaps in a red dress instead of blues jeans.
    I've still got a decent amount stockpiled in 35mm and 120 but it's still be great. If it is though then it should just be said.
    -----------------------

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  9. #109
    zsas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michel Hardy-Vallée View Post
    The problem with Anchell is that he misinterprets a lot of information. I have his cookbooks, and what he says about cubic v. tabular grains is not exactly sound science, even though he has a lot of otherwise useful information. Prakel makes the same mistake as Efke: TXP is a modern, thin-emulsion film. Not a thick-emulsion film. One of the reasons why silver amounts went down was increased efficiency of emulsions, not just cheapness.
    Well at this point we are going to have to agree to disagree, Anchell and Prakel support my point, that traditional films are more silver rich. Your opinion that they are incorrect possibly due to your opinion of these authors making inaccuracies in their texts (not necessarily explicitly related to this topic no less) is taken. If you have a book I can read re this topic, let me know its ISBN.
    Look, when Mirko says that this is a silver rich film that has a clear base, it has possibilities that not many films have (1, it is theoretically good for reversal and 2, good for scanning). So with that said, those two attributes, that I dont believe other makers have (I am not sure if Lucky SHD 100, Kentmere 100 and Foma 100 have clear base) are worth calling out. Thus ADOX’s claim that these virtues are worth considering, is fine in my book. If you only print b/w negs in a darkroom using an enlarger, then sure, this film might be no different than the rest, but, it could be different. Heck there are folks round here that can smell the difference between Plus X and HP4+.....
    How about some folks actually try the film and let it speak for itself instead of trashing and debating semantics…

    Thankfully we are talking about a $4 box of film and not a car or a monochrome M....

    If anyone is in Germany for the camera show this week, give Mirko a pat on the back for creating a new film/dev.
    I feel like Aggie right now….all she wanted to do is discuss Silver Rich and a massive drama unfolded….
    http://www.apug.org/forums/forum37/5...lver-rich.html
    Andy

  10. #110
    Michel Hardy-Vallée's Avatar
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    Well, what can I say: science IS about semantics.But I don't care enough to say rude or uncouth things like others, so let it be.
    Using film since before it was hip.


    "One of the most singular characters of the hyposulphites, is the property their solutions possess of dissolving muriate of silver and retaining it in considerable quantity in permanent solution" — Sir John Frederick William Herschel, "On the Hyposulphurous Acid and its Compounds." The Edinburgh Philosophical Journal, Vol. 1 (8 Jan. 1819): 8-29. p. 11

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