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  1. #51
    zsas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DREW WILEY View Post
    There's a distinction between a film being able to hold a long range of values due to compression ("minus" and/or compensating development with its inevitable compression of midtone microcontrast)
    and a film which will actually carry a very wide range of values upon a relative straight part of the
    curve. To my knowledge, the only current ultrafine-grained film which will do this is the now defunct
    Efke 25 (about 12 stops). Otherwise, you're speaking about old-school thick-emulsion coarse films like Super-XX, Bergger 200, and Fomapan 200. I obviously have no idea of how the new film in question factors into this.


    Drew - Forgive my basic question, but when you say compression are you talking about a traditional film (eg PanF+, Tri-X) vs a tabular (Tmax, Delta, Acros)? If yes, do you think this new film is a traditional film (I believe Mirko said it was based on APX100)?
    Last edited by zsas; 09-10-2012 at 05:24 PM. Click to view previous post history. Reason: Add quote
    Andy

  2. #52
    ADOX Fotoimpex's Avatar
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    It could be a film designed to do slides (in which case you do need the extra Dmax); it could also be a film designed to do copy work (like the late Tech Pan, which could build an impressive contrast), but I see nothing to this effect in the press release.
    Taken from our press release:

    "SILVERMAX is coated onto clear triacetate and can be reversal processed"

    So, yes, this is ofcourse one of the reasons for the extra silver and DMAX.
    We tried to make a film for good negative and reversal processing.

    Mirko

  3. #53
    ADOX Fotoimpex's Avatar
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    Wish they hadn't told us about it until they had some for sale. The suspense is too much!
    Bruce,

    this is an annoncement one week prior to the release of the film at Photokina.
    Ofcourse I could have released it the day Photokina starts, but the whole point is to attract people to our booth at the show so I figured one week ahead wouldn´t hurt ;-)
    I am typing this while the machines are spooling in a night shift....

    Mirko

  4. #54

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    Zsas - no, compression is related to how one develops the film to obtain lower overall contrast. But
    doing so with most films will simply result in a loss to perceptible contrast in the shadows and midtones, unless one is resorting to something like platinum printing. If you give ordinary development
    to a typical film like FP4, for example, for an extremely contrasty scene, it means little to have a certain amt of information at the extremes if it becomes almost impossible to print them by ordinary
    means. Tabular versus traditional grain has nothing to do with this. TMYT400 is a tabular grain film
    with a very long straight line way down into the low shadows, Delta 100 is not (being mainly a mid to
    high value film with a long toe versus a straight line in the lower section). I'm not implying that one
    of these films is "better" than another. It's nice to have a real selection. But extreme contrast scenes present a particular set of problems.

  5. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by ADOX Fotoimpex View Post
    I am typing this while the machines are spooling in a night shift....

    Mirko

    Bulk rolls?

    Price?

    http://street-photos.net/ | http://felinik.com/ | http://www.facebook.com/jf.felinik

    "The one with the most stuff when he dies wins"

  6. #56
    Michel Hardy-Vallée's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADOX Fotoimpex View Post
    Taken from our press release:

    "SILVERMAX is coated onto clear triacetate and can be reversal processed"

    So, yes, this is ofcourse one of the reasons for the extra silver and DMAX.
    We tried to make a film for good negative and reversal processing.

    Mirko
    Ah, I stand corrected, and that makes indeed sense.
    Using film since before it was hip.


    "One of the most singular characters of the hyposulphites, is the property their solutions possess of dissolving muriate of silver and retaining it in considerable quantity in permanent solution" — Sir John Frederick William Herschel, "On the Hyposulphurous Acid and its Compounds." The Edinburgh Philosophical Journal, Vol. 1 (8 Jan. 1819): 8-29. p. 11

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  7. #57
    Michel Hardy-Vallée's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DREW WILEY View Post
    There's a distinction between a film being able to hold a long range of values due to compression ("minus" and/or compensating development with its inevitable compression of midtone microcontrast)
    and a film which will actually carry a very wide range of values upon a relative straight part of the
    curve.
    I'm going to try to reformulate what you said in terms of characteristic curve.

    Let's say we have film A, which is "a film being able to hold a long range of values due to compression."

    Compressed development only means that the 14 zones of exposure translate into a density range that is printable on a given grade of paper following less development than normal.

    If you develop film A normally, unless the 14th zone of exposure reaches the shoulder (in which case it will be unprintable because it will be undistinguishable from the nearby 13th zone of exposure), you will have 14 zones of exposure nicely lined up on the straight line of the characteristic curve, you will have excellent tone separation, but totally unprintable highlights. Which will require you to either a) burn down the highlights or b) print on a soft contrast paper (silver gelatin 00, platinum, etc).

    There is no such thing as film B, which would be "a film which will actually carry a very wide range of values upon a relative straight part of the
    curve" that is distinct from film A, because it's ALREADY film A.

    If you have a film such as "film B" then you could very well end up with unprintable highlights. Unless it's inherently a low contrast film. In which case you only need to develop it normally for it to translate a 14 zone exposure range into a printable density range.

    The only advantage of such a film compared to a typical film undergoing reduced development is if its curve happens to be more nicely SHAPED than the curve of a normal film developed less than normal.

    I know that some compression/expansion regimens, even though they allow one to fit 14 zones of exposure range onto a grade 2 paper, might give unsatisfactory results because of the SHAPE of the resulting characteristic curve.

    So, if this film is a "killer app" for something, it would be because it has an interesting characteristic curve SHAPE for a situation in which one needs to translate 14 stops of exposure range into a printable density range, without the need for burning in, and by avoiding some side-effects (distortion of the characteristic curve).

    But until I see densitometric data from ADOX, I will just stay with the fact that this film might be great for B&W reversal; in the absence of a characteristic curve, we're left with vague concepts.
    Using film since before it was hip.


    "One of the most singular characters of the hyposulphites, is the property their solutions possess of dissolving muriate of silver and retaining it in considerable quantity in permanent solution" — Sir John Frederick William Herschel, "On the Hyposulphurous Acid and its Compounds." The Edinburgh Philosophical Journal, Vol. 1 (8 Jan. 1819): 8-29. p. 11

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  8. #58
    ADOX Fotoimpex's Avatar
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    It sounds interesting in theory, but what's the point of having 14 zones if your paper can't print them all?
    it´s a 35mm film. Usually in shooting 35mm you end up with a lot of different contrast situations on the same roll.
    The more your film can capture in the first place, the more you can later decide what to bring to your paper (by burning and dodging).
    Also "some" people scan today nd the chips can capture this range. The film is especially well suited for scanning due to it´s clear base.
    And last but not least, as mentioned above, if developed to a transparency, in the projection you can see it all.

    Mirko

  9. #59
    georg16nik's Avatar
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    Mirko, Thanks for the effort with this film and the updates!!!
    The news about it came right on time!

    Quote Originally Posted by DREW WILEY View Post
    There's a distinction between a film being able to hold a long range of values due to compression ("minus" and/or compensating development with its inevitable compression of midtone microcontrast)
    and a film which will actually carry a very wide range of values upon a relative straight part of the
    curve. To my knowledge, the only current ultrafine-grained film which will do this is the now defunct
    Efke 25 (about 12 stops). ...
    Drew, Agfa Copex Rapid made by Agfa-Gevaert can hold 14 stops (if You need), on top of that., Copex Rapid is finer grained and sharper than Efke 25 and is faster.

    I expect Adox Silvermax to be like a faster brother to Copex Rapid and having its own character.

  10. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ektagraphic View Post
    Who was this film manufactured by? Was it made at Fotokemika before the accident?
    Hello Patrick,

    no, it has not been made by Fotokemika. This film is one result of the cooperation between Adox and InovisCoat.

    The film is currently in the test phase here in my lab. First results look good. The spectral sensivity of this film is identical to the Agfa APX 100.

    Best regards,
    Henning



 

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