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  1. #41
    Ken Nadvornick's Avatar
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    Thanks for additional insights, Henning. I always appreciate the clear thinking and the references included to back it up.

    So then it might resolve down to having still film benefiting from the economies of scale created by another non-film coated product that shares the same production line. That would then be the crucial difference in Fujifilm's manufacturing model, allowing them to continue still film production.

    If this is true, then it begs the further question of why Kodak wouldn't do the same? Providing, of course, that Kodak really wants to maintain their still film production in the longer term. I can't imagine that Kodak's level of coating sophistication or capabilities would be any less than Fujifilm's.

    Ken
    "When making a portrait, my approach is quite the same as when I am portraying a rock. I do not wish to impose my personality upon the sitter, but, keeping myself open to receive reactions from his own special ego, record this with nothing added: except of course when I am working professionally, when money enters in,—then for a price, I become a liar..."

    — Edward Weston, Daybooks, Vol. II, February 2, 1932

  2. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Nadvornick View Post
    If this is true, then it begs the further question of why Kodak wouldn't do the same? Providing, of course, that Kodak really wants to maintain their still film production in the longer term. I can't imagine that Kodak's level of coating sophistication or capabilities would be any less than Fujifilm's.

    Ken
    Well, Ken, maybe the production volume of RA-4 paper and film is currently still too big to be concentrated at only one production place, still too much volume for such a transfer.
    Being it an option in the future at lower volumes.
    But honestly, that' a guess.
    As I've written in my first post, it could be an option in the long term.
    We'll see.

    Best regards,
    Henning

  3. #43
    Ken Nadvornick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henning Serger View Post
    Well, Ken, maybe the production volume of RA-4 paper and film is currently still too big to be concentrated at only one production place, still too much volume for such a transfer.
    Being it an option in the future at lower volumes.
    But honestly, that' a guess.
    As I've written in my first post, it could be an option in the long term.
    We'll see.
    I suppose, yes.

    But there are those here who are warning—and not without justification, it would seem—that Kodak's long term future may be measured in terms of only weeks. If true, and they have any rabbits left to pull out of their hats, right now might be a good time to think about doing that.

    As you say, we'll see.

    Ken
    "When making a portrait, my approach is quite the same as when I am portraying a rock. I do not wish to impose my personality upon the sitter, but, keeping myself open to receive reactions from his own special ego, record this with nothing added: except of course when I am working professionally, when money enters in,—then for a price, I become a liar..."

    — Edward Weston, Daybooks, Vol. II, February 2, 1932

  4. #44
    Diapositivo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Nadvornick View Post
    But there are those here who are warning—and not without justification, it would seem—that Kodak's long term future may be measured in terms of only weeks. If true, and they have any rabbits left to pull out of their hats, right now might be a good time to think about doing that.
    IMHO there's a bit too much panic regarding production of Kodak film in the future.

    The fact that Kodak manage or don't manage to exit Chapter 11 procedures is important for Kodak shareholders, creditors and other stakeholders but is not material for the survival of Kodak film manufacturing provided that this business is and remains profitable.

    If and when Kodak fails to emerge from Chapter 11 and "falls" into Chapter 7 (proper bankrupcty procedures, with sale of the entire firm to satisfy creditors) IF film manufacturing is profitable someone will take it at the final auction. Where there is a profit there certainly is a buyer in a normal world.

    If, in that case, nobody is going to get the Film business it will be because there is no expectation that film manufacture can continue "in the long run" as an economically sustainable business. But that has nothing to do with the exit from Chapter 11.

    The case may be that some potential buyer is actually waiting for Chapter 7 to buy the film business at a better price.

    The fact that the Chapter 11 process will end by march 2013 or whenever in the short term does not mean that Kodak film is risking closure by that date.
    Fabrizio Ruggeri fine art photography site: http://fabrizio-ruggeri.artistwebsites.com
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  5. #45
    Ken Nadvornick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diapositivo View Post
    Where there is a profit there certainly is a buyer in a normal world.
    I hope you're correct. As Henning said, we'll see.

    I'm certainly not in a panic. I wouldn't have just spent ~US$2,000 for a brand new medium format camera if I was. It looks like Ilford/Harmen and Adox have black-and-white nicely covered. And if the worst happens with Kodak, it's now begining to look like Fujifilm may have color covered as well. At least for a while.

    But I don't necessarily share your optimistic sense that business—especially American business—will always act in its own best interest. It's far too dysfunctional for the simplification that they will just follow the money. I've worked for more companies than I can count (well, 10 or 12 I think), and the majority of them went belly-up in some fashion due to failures to apply even the most easily-reachable common sense logic.* But this is a topic for another discussion.

    Except to note that if Kodak had been acting in its own true best interests over the last five or so years, they wouldn't be in the position they find themselves in right now.

    So we'll see...

    Ken

    * Umm... tell me why we're spending a quarter million dollars to upgrade our office space when we haven't even sold a single product yet? What do you mean we're doing it to impress the investment community? It was their money in the first place! (Out of business less than 12 months later.)
    Last edited by Ken Nadvornick; 09-14-2012 at 03:33 PM. Click to view previous post history. Reason: Added quote...
    "When making a portrait, my approach is quite the same as when I am portraying a rock. I do not wish to impose my personality upon the sitter, but, keeping myself open to receive reactions from his own special ego, record this with nothing added: except of course when I am working professionally, when money enters in,—then for a price, I become a liar..."

    — Edward Weston, Daybooks, Vol. II, February 2, 1932

  6. #46
    Diapositivo's Avatar
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    RattyMouse I see your point by in your case your firm was bought by a competitor who had to "rationalise" the workforce after the take-over to squeeze the benefit.

    I suppose, and also hope, that the Kodak film business would be bought not by a competitor in the US (there is none) but by some large corporation like 3M, P&G, Dow Chemicals etc.

    The scenario you fear would be most likely if it was Fujifilm to buy the Kodak film business, as they would have to merge the two activities trimming out any redundancy.
    Fabrizio Ruggeri fine art photography site: http://fabrizio-ruggeri.artistwebsites.com
    Stock images at Imagebroker: http://www.imagebroker.com/#/search/ib_fbr

  7. #47
    Rudeofus's Avatar
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    While MP film makes/made enormous volume, it might not make enormous margins. Just look at recent still film prices, I don't think Hollywood pays nearly as much for MP film although MP film production cost may not be all that much less. Hollywood and Bollywood certainly won't pay US$10+ for less than 2m of 35mm film like we still photographers happily (?) do.
    Trying to be the best of whatever I am, even if what I am is no good.

  8. #48

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    The retail price for a 400 foot roll of Ektachrome 100D right now is $475 from Kodak. That seems to be the cheapest price around. It's even more expensive at places like Film Emporium, at $547 a roll.

    How many 36 exposure rolls can you get out of 400 feet? Depending on your loader and how careful you are, anywhere from 72 to 80 rolls, based on 18 to 20 rolls per 100 feet. So at worst, that works out to $6.60 a roll. Definitely cheaper than buying remaining stocks of the Kodak E100 still films, but still pretty expensive.

    I doubt large studios use a lot of reversal film or pay full retail price for it. The color negative films are far more commonly used, and are much less expensive than reversal film.

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