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  1. #11
    lxdude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by benjiboy View Post
    glad to be out of retailing.
    I hear there's a pet shop on the Isle of Man that does a good business retailing Manx cats.
    I do use a digital device in my photographic pursuits when necessary.
    When someone rags on me for using film, I use a middle digit, upraised.

  2. #12
    benjiboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lxdude View Post
    I hear there's a pet shop on the Isle of Man that does a good business retailing Manx cats.
    Don't give up you're day job.
    Ben

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by foc View Post
    There is an interesting article from Photokina
    http://www.showdailys.com/E-publishe...kina2012_day2/

    See page 17 regarding film sale tracking volumn and how the 4x6 print market is changing world wide.

    I own a photoshop/minilab in rural Ireland and yes the number of people getting prints from digital cameras and phones has decreased. It came to a stage where I woundered if I could survive in business. I spoke to other lab owners in other parts of the country and they had the same problem. I approached Fuji Ireland and they were of the same opinion. If something wasn't done soon a lot of photo shops would close.

    The solution was an all out effort to make the customer awear of the value of a printed photo. The national advertising and local window display pushed home the idea of " if your pc crashes/ lost memory card/ stolen phoone, you loose all your photo, so print them now"

    And guess what, it worked. Ok it did take time but the scare tactics worked. I now have regular customers coming into the shop and ordering 100, 200, 300 + prints from phones and memory cards. They also buy albums to store the prints.

    And it has a good knock on effect for my film processing. We now get "Oh you still develop film? I have a few at home in the drawer, I must get them developed"

    I even had a few digital customers go back to film because they liked film but thought it was dead.

    I now sell lots of second hand 35mm film cameras and usually to people in their early 20's.

    So what I'm really trying to say is that photo retail can survive but a lot of effort is needed from the retailer. There is a market out there, you just need to find your niche.
    Thanks.
    Correlates with the observations here in my town.
    Lot's of local photo shops here had to give up during the period 2000 - 2006. But not only because of the digital flood, but also (probably mainly) because of the very strong competition of the new online distributors.
    For the last years the number of the remaining shops is quite stable. They've found their strategies and niches to survive.
    And one strategy is indeed offering quality prints:
    Talked about that two years ago with the owner of my preferred local shop here. He told me that their in house Fuji Frontier minilab, and offering higher quality prints (with significant better quality than the prints from the mass labs / drug store chains) saved their business.
    The customers appreciate the higher quality and are willing to pay more for it. Both the film and digital photographers.

    And at the Photokina there was quite a few talks about seeing a little trend back to printed images.
    The biggest European photofinisher / mass lab, CEWE Color, has reported slightly increasing numbers of prints (RA-4) in their latest quarterly reports (increasing numbers especially from digital files).

    Best regards,
    Henning

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by foc View Post
    There is an interesting article from Photokina
    http://www.showdailys.com/E-publishe...kina2012_day2/

    See page 17 regarding film sale tracking volumn and how the 4x6 print market is changing world wide.

    I own a photoshop/minilab in rural Ireland and yes the number of people getting prints from digital cameras and phones has decreased. It came to a stage where I woundered if I could survive in business. I spoke to other lab owners in other parts of the country and they had the same problem. I approached Fuji Ireland and they were of the same opinion. If something wasn't done soon a lot of photo shops would close.

    The solution was an all out effort to make the customer awear of the value of a printed photo. The national advertising and local window display pushed home the idea of " if your pc crashes/ lost memory card/ stolen phoone, you loose all your photo, so print them now"

    And guess what, it worked. Ok it did take time but the scare tactics worked. I now have regular customers coming into the shop and ordering 100, 200, 300 + prints from phones and memory cards. They also buy albums to store the prints.

    And it has a good knock on effect for my film processing. We now get "Oh you still develop film? I have a few at home in the drawer, I must get them developed"

    I even had a few digital customers go back to film because they liked film but thought it was dead.

    I now sell lots of second hand 35mm film cameras and usually to people in their early 20's.

    So what I'm really trying to say is that photo retail can survive but a lot of effort is needed from the retailer. There is a market out there, you just need to find your niche.
    Good on you for being a good and gutsy small-business man.

    Herein lies the lesson for Kodak. If they hadn't abandoned marketing and advertising of film, they might never have had to go into bankruptcy during their transition to... to... to umm... whatever it is they are trying to become.
    A politician is a man who will double cross that bridge when he comes to it.

    Oscar Levant

  5. #15

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    No one should mourn the loss of Ritz. In my area, they were dirtbag borderline criminals who had no clue and deserved to go down. Idiotic people working the store, pushing their junk quantanray (sp?) garbage lenses and other overpriced trinkets. At one point they had a good analog-based minilab, but it was overpriced, then they screwed the pooch by replacing it with some craptacular digital-based minilab, and their prints looked like shite. good riddance to those tossers.

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by EdSawyer View Post
    No one should mourn the loss of Ritz. In my area, they were dirtbag borderline criminals who had no clue and deserved to go down. Idiotic people working the store, pushing their junk quantanray (sp?) garbage lenses and other overpriced trinkets. At one point they had a good analog-based minilab, but it was overpriced, then they screwed the pooch by replacing it with some craptacular digital-based minilab, and their prints looked like shite. good riddance to those tossers.
    Well, using a different wording, I would share the same experience. Last time I went to a Ritz store (2-3 weeks ago), I found the store quiet, very quiet and empty, very empty. I was not aware of their financial situation but it felt like they went down the drain...

    I would not comment on their strategy (it is always easy to comment afterward) but I fully agree with the fact that quality and honest work are the way to keep customers. I remember years ago when I was shooting color negatives for the family, I chose the photo store because of the quality of the prints, not because they were close from home or the cheapest.

    Take care.

  7. #17
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    I have worked in a photolab for 14 years now and have seen many changes in our business. Its in a retail outlet, so the store helps us stay open. We still develop film (at a high cost) for the customer, but the bulk of the lab business is printing from digital prints. Here in Canada we do a lot of business printing orders compared to the US that does a fraction of our numbers. This has helped us stay open. Where in the USA you may print off low numbers of digital pictures per order, here in Canada we can at times do 10 times that much. We don't do much film at all these days, but still offer developing. We get more business from low end camera sales then photo developing. And we also do photogifts now which add to the sales. I don't know how many more years we have to stay open strictly as we are today, but I'm expecting at some point we'll shutter the Photolab business. And I'll be out looking for a new job. I keep my options open on that, but not planning on leaving just yet- unless a job comes available that I have interest in.

    I shoot both digital and film today. I find film extremely expensive to develop compared to digital, so I use it for mainly important shoots or stuff I want slides or B&W for. I don't shoot C-41 anymore unless its 120 format.
    Last edited by braxus; 10-01-2012 at 06:37 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  8. #18
    Thomas Bertilsson's Avatar
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    'Smart' consumers rejoice. They don't have to pay for film, film processing, and prints anymore. They've been trained by media to believe this is a good thing. At first glance, it might seem that way - less cost once the initial investment was done to buy the camera. Many probably think they will 'print the good ones later', because they don't have to print them to see them anymore. So they take the inexpensive way out.

    Like the article says, though, the question is whether people will miss having printed pictures or not in 20 years. It may be that the next generation thinks it's really strange to view photographs as printed matter. Time will tell.
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

  9. #19
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    Though my business would not fall strictly under Retail, my doors have been open to the public now twenty years. Changes are extreme , more so than when I was cutting my teeth working for photo labs here in Toronto.

    When I first started my first mentor told me to find 20 clients and do the best work you can for them and you will survive.

    So Braxus in British Columbia this 2 cents is for you to consider, when you are unsure where your company is going.

    People always will require someone to take their images to a better level, therefore learn to be the best PS and technical printer able to work in various styles.
    People will always want to hang their images on the wall... So learn how to frame and add that too your list of services.
    People will always want to exhibit their work.. So at the front end of your shop have a gallery where artists can show their stuff.. hopefully printed and framed by you.
    People will always want to bring up their past history, usually when they are hitting their 60's and have a bit of money to spend,, so learn how to scan old images and reproduce them in historic processes.
    People will always want to go to a place where excellent photographers get their work done.. therefore be very decisive who you pick as clients...Yes pick your clients... and only
    pick key clients you like working with and also like their work otherwise you will not enjoy your new seven day a week lifestyle.


    I have surrounded myself with wonderfully talented people who are willing to take the business places I would never be able to go to . With a healthy relationship I can do what I want now that I am coming up to my 60'th birthday. I suspect I will move from Toronto to a smaller community and support my company where I can.

    I am going to keep on working on being the best printer / framer I can be, by constantly taking workshops related to PS and alt printing.
    I am going to reopen my gallery.. The Dylan Ellis Gallery.. and only represent archival printmaker/photographers whose work I respect and a few key clients I have been working on for 20 years.
    The Dylan Ellis Gallery will be only interested in the Art Fairs in the major centers and my openings will be every 6-8 weeks showing the best work I can find out there.
    I am going to exhibit my Wife and my Own work and hope to see some revenue from 20 years of exposing and printing, but there is no garuntee of the publics response to our work.
    I am scanning collections and reproducing them on alternative processes to put in collections and promote my services on the net.
    I will keep on hand picking key clients and hopefully make some right moves.



    ######I don't know how many more years we have to stay open strictly as we are today, but I'm expecting at some point we'll shutter the Photolab business. And I'll be out looking for a new job. I keep my options open on that, but not planning on leaving just yet- unless a job comes available that I have interest in.#####

    So Braxus , 14 years in a photolab is a long time working for others, With equipment so cheap these days, on the used and new market I would say look at yourself and give it a go. I started Silver Shack when I was 40, the ability to work hard each day is my only endearing attribute. Learned that as a high lead logger on Vancouver Island.


    Remember people will require photo services, but in the end it always boils down to a nice print, framed to the clients specs , hanging on a wall... Pretty simple if you think about it.

  10. #20
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    I worked for a group of ten retail photographic stores who managed to go bankrupt just before the advent of digital photography, mainly due to the idiocy and profligacy of the board of directors, not to mention the illegal practices that they indulged in that some of them were subsequently jailed for, which put over a hundred of their staff out of work.
    Ben

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