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  1. #31

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    RattyMouse are you a troll?
    You posting are often very unreasonable.
    I encourage everyone to read all of the earlier RattyMouse posts.
    He has many on many threads.
    Then you decide if you want to reply to him.
    OR
    Maybe I am the Troll?
    Last edited by brianmquinn; 10-06-2012 at 10:51 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  2. #32
    Ken Nadvornick's Avatar
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    No, he's not a troll. Just massively frustrated with Kodak, I think. Same as half of my posts that demonstrate similar frustration, but are also not trolling.

    APUG is all about film photography. As such, the people here can't understand why Kodak does not do the common sense things a film manufacturing company would do to increase sales of their film products. I mean, it seems so painfully obvious what needs to happen, but never seems to happen. Except with other film companies.

    It's very hard—almost impossible in many cases—for people here to wrap their heads around the fact that Kodak (or at least Kodak's upper management and board of directors) does not want Kodak to be a film company anymore. They have publicly and repeatedly said this to anyone who would listen for over five years now. They want out of film. And introducing new or updated films in the short term does not change that stated long term goal.

    I've posted so many links to these public pronouncements by Kodak's management that I've nearly run out of electrons. But all it achieved was to make people mad. They didn't want to hear what Kodak was saying about the direction it was going. So I don't do it anymore.

    But think about it for a moment. If Kodak really did want to stay in the film business over the long term, would they have put their film business up for sale? If so, that would be a mighty funny way of showing it...

    No, it's just frustration.

    Ken

    [Edit: OK, just to enjoy one more time being a dead messenger, here's another pretty authoritative Kodak pronouncement (Kodak Continues Progress toward Emergence, 9/28/2012, 7th bullet point, my emphasis):

    "Commencement of a process to sell the market-leading Personalized Imaging and Document Imaging businesses, which are not core to Kodak’s future."

    As we all know, Personalized Imaging is film imaging. Now I've used and loved Kodak products my entire life. But for the life of me I don't know how it can be stated any clearer than that. And this long term goal has been utterly consistent for the last five plus years. If it looks to some like Kodak is "doing everything possible to kill film," well, you'll just have to draw your own conclusions...]
    Last edited by Ken Nadvornick; 10-07-2012 at 12:19 AM. Click to view previous post history. Reason: Added [Edit]...
    "When making a portrait, my approach is quite the same as when I am portraying a rock. I do not wish to impose my personality upon the sitter, but, keeping myself open to receive reactions from his own special ego, record this with nothing added: except of course when I am working professionally, when money enters in,—then for a price, I become a liar..."

    — Edward Weston, Daybooks, Vol. II, February 2, 1932

  3. #33
    Ken Nadvornick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RattyMouse View Post
    To help keep film going I want to support the companies who wish to remain in the film business. That means Ilford and Fujifilm.
    And don't forget ADOX. Mirko is moving mountains in trying to establish a post-digital, right-sized quality film manufacturing operation. He comes here to APUG and is brutally honest about both his successes and failures. And his ideas for the future. I just wish people were willing to spend more for analog products in general. With more funds there's no telling what he might be able to do.

    Ken
    "When making a portrait, my approach is quite the same as when I am portraying a rock. I do not wish to impose my personality upon the sitter, but, keeping myself open to receive reactions from his own special ego, record this with nothing added: except of course when I am working professionally, when money enters in,—then for a price, I become a liar..."

    — Edward Weston, Daybooks, Vol. II, February 2, 1932

  4. #34

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    The main difference between Fuji and EK is that Fuji was able to diversify enough that they are financially stable, whereas Kodak wasn't (for many reasons). If EK stock was $100 a share and annual profits were in the billions, Kodak would be able to afford a few thousand dollars to maintain goodwill. When their net loss is almost 800 million, they can't afford to spill out day-old coffee, much less keep coating film that loses money.


    P.S. Fuji's discontinued their fair share of films in the past few years. Fans of Neopan 1600, 800Z, FP-100B, 4x5 instant pack films, 64T, Astia, Velvia 100F, and LF Velvia 50 shooters know all too well about Fuji's "demonstrated commitment" to film.
    "Panic not my child, the Great Yellow Father has your hand"--Larry Dressler

  5. #35
    Roger Cole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RattyMouse View Post
    Roger, Thanks for your reply. Of course I can understand anyone's personal preference for a specific film. My return to film has me without any particular preference so I gravitate towards Fujifilm and Ilford to some extent because these two companies are seriously committed to film. Kodak is not and is instead totally dismissive of film. I am shooting a lot of 400H this week for the first time so I am interested to see if it really looks like film from decades ago as you say above. I declined to use Porta and instead choose 400H. Probably not the best choice for outdoor street use at night, but I wanted to experiment. I have Reala for daytime use. I wanted to shoot mostly Acros but for the life of me I cannot find it ANYWHERE here in Hong Kong. Supplies have completely dried up. I really like Acros so rather than change films, I am shooting color this trip instead.
    Reala is pretty good. 400H, well - that may have been a little exaggerated "like a film from decades ago" but it's not Portra 400 which I think is a better film, unless you want a grittier look with more grain, less saturation (that part I like for some stuff - I'd love to find something like the old Agfa Portrait 160) and less accurate color. Examples are easy to find online, but heck, you may find it's just what you wanted.

    Bottom line for me is that I can do black and white (probably 70% or more of my work) just fine without Kodak. I can shoot color slides for a while longer anyway with Fuji though I'm still bothered by the loss of Astia, maybe the single best E6 film ever. But in color neg I think Kodak is very good choice. Even if you like Reala and 400H, there's no Fuji competition for Ektar 100.

  6. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by RattyMouse View Post
    How many trolls do you know that PAY to join a web site to troll? Hmmm?? Do you even have a brain?

    I stand by EVERY word I have posted here at APUG.

    By the way, why don’t YOU subscribe?
    Yes, I do have a brain. I also do subscribe.

    Do you remember two months ago?
    You posted In the Industry New Section on August 4th 2012:
    “After more than 10 years away, I SHOT FILM today”
    (This was in NO WAY Industry news. But I passed it over at the time as
    you are in China and it may be a language issue.)

    Now, 2 months later, you are an smarter than all of us?

    I do not want to fight. However do not pretend to be a World expert when you are not.
    Last edited by brianmquinn; 10-08-2012 at 10:42 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  7. #37
    georg16nik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RattyMouse View Post
    I swear I dont understand how anyone can support Kodak. They are doing everything possible to kill film. The amount of boneheaded decisions is astonishing. Even the "sale" of their film division is so half assed...
    Kodak are still manufacturing products worth buying. Whats wrong with supporting Kodak???
    I am not a regular Kodak films user but I shot a box of Kodak films every year..
    For most of us, Kodak is not the white collars but the product and the photo engineers and the crew that makes those films.

    Most Kodak haters are missing the major point. What happens to Kodak is orchestrated event, its all being paid for, in gold. The global industry does not need Kodak.
    The current CEO is the *right* one, the current board of directors is the most *convenient* one.

    Shoot Kodak film while You still can.

  8. #38

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    Sorry for my previous post. I have reconsidered and decided that it is not something that belongs on APUG.

  9. #39
    Roger Cole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by georg16nik View Post
    Most Kodak haters are missing the major point. What happens to Kodak is orchestrated event, its all being paid for, in gold. The global industry does not need Kodak.
    The current CEO is the *right* one, the current board of directors is the most *convenient* one.

    Shoot Kodak film while You still can.
    What are you talking about?

    This sounds like pure tinfoil hat conspiracy theory, typically short on details. If you have some real allegations and some evidence, let's hear specifically what you mean and your evidence.

    Except for Kodak making good films and we should use them if we like them, which I do and I do.
    Last edited by Roger Cole; 10-09-2012 at 09:19 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  10. #40
    Thomas Bertilsson's Avatar
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    There are a lot of people working at Eastman Kodak that are hoping to retain a job in an already depressed part of the country. The decisions are not made by these workers, but by a team of executives who count beans and who haven't exactly developed the best strategy over the years. That's not the fault of the majority of the amazing professionals that work there, churning out the best quality film in the world.

    Support the films and products you like to support. Shoot what gives you the most pleasure and the best results, chances are that would be a Kodak emulsion. A photography world without Kodak would be a much poorer one, if you look beyond the politics of it, which has nothing to do with the joy of photography.

    Quote Originally Posted by RattyMouse View Post
    I swear I dont understand how anyone can support Kodak. They are doing everything possible to kill film. The amount of boneheaded decisions is astonishing. Even the "sale" of their film division is so half assed.
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

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