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  1. #111
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    I think that the comment above regarding explaining our health care system to those outside the US are apropos and that Ratty Mouse has not overstepped the bounds of civility nor the bounds of responses for this thread.

    Since I am a Kodak retiree and take a great interest in this thread, let he who is also an EK retiree feel free to throw stones. Otherwise, please be silent or civil.

    PE

  2. #112

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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    I think that the comment above regarding explaining our health care system to those outside the US are apropos and that Ratty Mouse has not overstepped the bounds of civility nor the bounds of responses for this thread.

    Since I am a Kodak retiree and take a great interest in this thread, let he who is also an EK retiree feel free to throw stones. Otherwise, please be silent or civil.

    PE
    OK, I will.
    I have great respect for you and all of the analog photography information you provide. This has become a political thread and heats up passions.

  3. #113
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    I suspect that others in this forum have an interest in the results as well since the response to Kodak's petition not only has a direct affect on that company's own retirees but could also be used to justify similar actions by other companies watching from the sidelines. This type of action does not happen in a vacuum, particularly in today's economic environment. If past promises can legally be put aside by Kodak then this may only be the breach in the dike that others have been looking for.

    I think that the discussions related to the current state of health care in the US, as well as the expense of insuring that care, have a direct relation to this overall discussion. It may turn out that some of these good people may find themselves unexpectedly swimming in that puddle.

  4. #114
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    Nothing personal was meant. This was a general comment on the trend of this tread by several and also in the face of previous attacks by some at me and my work.

    I was merely intending to stand with Ratty Mouse in the face of some harsh criticism which was not really deserved, IMHO.

    I wish you all well. Peace.

    PE

  5. #115
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    Someone out of the industry recently stated that it is social security legislation that makes it difficult for a manufacturer to adapt to a shrinking market. And thus insolvency would be the result, to the benefit of the owner who thus get's off his employees.
    But the situation the photochemical industry has to face has not come overnight. And one (the owner/the management) could have prepared for this. Except of course one clings to the last-one-standing concept solely and would then be unprepared if it is oneself that cannot stand any longer.

  6. #116
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    Regarding the funding of health care plans by Kodak I think there is a half-glass situation here. Kodak is in any case not going to provide all the "promised" funds and as far as I can gather did not have a strict juridical obligation either. Agreeing to settle for half the amount leaves half glass on the table but secures the other half glass which would otherwise be quite at risk. Other classes of creditors will end up probably being treated worse.

    Overall the half-glass compromise seems to me fairly advantageous for Kodak retirees / employees and I wouldn't consider it a bad news. I am actually surprised that an engagement which was, as said, not legally binding can make a dent on the rights of the other creditors.
    Fabrizio Ruggeri fine art photography site: http://fabrizio-ruggeri.artistwebsites.com
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  7. #117
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    There is no "half glass" with health care. Kodak is going to cut it if that is approved. So, there will be nothing there!

    PE

  8. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    There is no "half glass" with health care. Kodak is going to cut it if that is approved. So, there will be nothing there!

    PE
    I was referring to this text - I don't know if I got it right - in the originally quoted post:

    The company said it reached an agreement with the court-appointed committee of retirees to pay a total of $650 million in claims and $7.5 million in cash into a fund that could be used for future payments in exchange for eliminating its current $1.2 billion liability for medical, dental, life insurance and survivor income benefits.

    If the company is exposed for $1.2 billions and it pays $657.5 millions it should be around half of the total liability that the company is going to honour.

    Maybe that only covers health care performances that have already been provided? I don't understand the use of "claims" here but it could be that the article was imprecisely worded. I infer this from the fact that the "liabilities" amount to $1.2 and I suppose that "liabilities" are exactly the total amount of the "promise" at today value. In that case, half of that would be paid or this is what I understand so far.

    PS I see now that MattKing in post #6 reasons the same way. It's about half the promise which is being paid, and considering it's a dire situation at Kodak, half might be a bargain.
    Fabrizio Ruggeri fine art photography site: http://fabrizio-ruggeri.artistwebsites.com
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  9. #119
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    Well, at this point in time, we have no idea what this means to us as retirees.

    Some of this is inexplicable to us because there are exceptions due to age, tenure and etc.

    PE

  10. #120
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    I don't think it is anywhere near as good as it sounds.

    I could certainly be wrong but it seems by the way the article is worded that Kodak is proposing to pay 650+ million in claims that have already been made against those liabilities, but temporarily suspended because of the bankruptcy, and then put another 7.5 million in a bank account. If the text is correct then it appears to me that the extra 7.5 million will be good to cover about 3 weeks of expenses since Kodak estimates the cost to be about 10 million per month.

    All they are trying to do is get out from under these liabilities. Like I said, I could be reading it wrong, but I don't think so.



 

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