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  1. #21

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    Given the vulnerability to this kind of thing for the vast majority of working people with the exception of the very rich it always amazes me and I suspect most of the people in the U.K. and the rest of Europe why there is such opposition to a form of state/country health service which through taxes is free at the point of use.

    pentaxuser

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Smith View Post
    "That was just an idle promise" - Homer Simpson.
    I find this difficult to write... but I agree with Karl Marx and I agree with Homer Simpson even more.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by pentaxuser View Post
    Given the vulnerability to this kind of thing for the vast majority of working people with the exception of the very rich it always amazes me and I suspect most of the people in the U.K. and the rest of Europe why there is such opposition to a form of state/country health service which through taxes is free at the point of use.

    pentaxuser
    Consider this:

    Many Canadians and Europeans come to the US for our expensive health care because it is the best. Clinics in border cities here are busy treating Canadians who cross the border for treatment. Oh, it is also quickly available. You don't have to wait months for treatment.

    I went to a doctor at 9, had an MRI at 10 and was back in his office looking at 3D models of the scan on his computer. I have friends in England waiting months to see a doctor. My wife had a bug recently and called her GP at 8:30, and had a 9:30 appointment.

    PE

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    Consider this:

    Many Canadians and Europeans come to the US for our expensive health care because it is the best.
    Yes... If you consider rated 37th in the world by the World Health Organisation to mean best!

    I don't know of anyone who has travelled from here to the US for health care.


    Steve.
    "People who say things won't work are a dime a dozen. People who figure out how to make things work are worth a fortune" - Dave Rat.

  5. #25

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    I met a cab driver in England who was told theat he had 4 months to live, but the soonest they could schedule a heart operation was 6 months.

    I was only able to have this conversation because he came to New York (I seem to recall) and payed for it himself.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    Consider this:

    Many Canadians and Europeans come to the US for our expensive health care because it is the best. Clinics in border cities here are busy treating Canadians who cross the border for treatment. Oh, it is also quickly available. You don't have to wait months for treatment.

    I went to a doctor at 9, had an MRI at 10 and was back in his office looking at 3D models of the scan on his computer. I have friends in England waiting months to see a doctor. My wife had a bug recently and called her GP at 8:30, and had a 9:30 appointment.

    PE
    Ron,

    Regarding your descriptions of medical care provided, I'm not sure you really understand just how fortunate you and your wife are. For an individual, health care in the US is the best only if that individual has access to it. For the other 50+ million individuals in this country who don't, it's not really very good at all.

    Ken
    "They are the proof that something was there and no longer is. Like a stain. And the stillness of them is boggling. You can turn away but when you come back they’ll still be there looking at you."

    — Diane Arbus, March 15, 1971, in response to a request for a brief statement about photographs

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Nadvornick View Post
    For an individual, health care in the US is the best only if that individual has access to it. For the other 50+ million in this country who don't, it's not really very good at all.
    In general I agree, but having had the unfortunate opportunity to spend about 6 days (over the past month) in emergency rooms and urgent care facilities and hospital rooms... the number of uninsured who receive services is quite astounding. I'd guess 33% of everyone there... and I live in an somewhat affluent part of Los Angeles. The uninsured are asked to apply for a grant, and if they do not qualify... then they will get stuck with a bill. I'll bet most default one way or another since there is likely no way to ever pay it off. But at least they get serviced and not turned away.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianShaw View Post
    having had the unfortunate opportunity to spend about 6 days (over the past month) in emergency rooms and urgent care facilities and hospital rooms... the number of uninsured who receive services is quite astounding.
    Receiving emergency treatment is not the same as receiving health care.


    Steve.
    "People who say things won't work are a dime a dozen. People who figure out how to make things work are worth a fortune" - Dave Rat.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by pentaxuser View Post
    Given the vulnerability to this kind of thing for the vast majority of working people with the exception of the very rich it always amazes me and I suspect most of the people in the U.K. and the rest of Europe why there is such opposition to a form of state/country health service which through taxes is free at the point of use.

    pentaxuser
    I am certainly not in favor of a government run health care program although Medicare is already a form of government run health program. It is a fact of life that government bureaucrats have a natural knack of messing up just about everything that they try to actually run. On the surface they are quite tempting but there are many underlying problems that can be quite difficult to administer. PE has outlined just a few of those problems.

    I do believe that our government should be able to enable and enforce laws requiring companies, municipalities and States to honor their obligations rather than permit them to pass those obligations along through the years like a big Ponzi scheme, financing them as they go, until they get in financial trouble.

    I believe that they should all be required to fully fund their obligations at the end of each year, and if they were too conservative with their funding in the previous year then the shortfalls need to be funded as well. I know it is not as simple as it sound but this would help keep things on the square. If that means that they cannot announce a huge profit, or pay monstrous dividends at the end of the year, so be it. Please read this with a certain amount of healthy skepticism because I am sure there are better ideas out there than my own simple ones.

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Smith View Post
    Receiving emergency treatment is not the same as receiving health care.
    Yes, you are quite right. Many appeared to be there for flu symptoms. I would have felt better to have seen uninsured pregnant women there getting prenatal checkups.

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