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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by jnanian View Post
    in the USA ...
    if you work for someone,
    If your work is a work for hire, which it is if it's created in the process of your job, the employer can claim copyright. Including, in most cases, a client unless otherwise specified.

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by kintatsu View Post
    This is not true. You own the copyright the instant an image is created. You can sue for actual, provable, economic losses. You will only receive those funds that you can prove are losses, plus legal fees.

    If you register, the court can award punitive damages above economic losses. You can register multiple images, even online. Registration provides added benefits, as well.

    Check out the copyright site, they have all the information you need.
    it IS true ...
    court system will no longer see copyright-cases where there is no proof-registration
    this is what a consulted-lawyer told me and what someone at the ASMP told me 8 years ago.

    you are welcome to try but you won't get far.

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by jnanian View Post
    there used to be something called a "poor man's copyright"
    which involved mailing everything to oneself
    the date/stamp acts as the registration-date and
    the duplicated items ( contact sheets, cd maybe a formal note
    saying what was in the envelope/cd &C ) ... everything in the UNOPENED envelope
    works the same way as a federal registration
    ,,
    i have only heard of the poor man's copyright, and i don't know how it holds up
    in court or if lawyers &c take it seriously ...

    unfortunately, this is only in the USA .. who knows what it is like elsewhere,
    probably even more confusing and murky ...

    From your link...

    I’ve heard about a “poor man’s copyright.” What is it?
    The practice of sending a copy of your own work to yourself is sometimes called a “poor man’s copyright.” There is no provision in the copyright law regarding any such type of protection, and it is not a substitute for registration.
    http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/fa...al.html#mywork

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by jnanian View Post
    it IS true ...
    court system will no longer see copyright-cases where there is no proof-registration
    this is what a consulted-lawyer told me and what someone at the ASMP told me 8 years ago.

    you are welcome to try but you won't get far.
    Makes sense. I would assume they would want you to sort things out with the copyright office before wasting the courts time.

    In your case why did you think you held the copyright? Why didn't you simply register it and then go to court when you realized there was a problem? Why didn't the lawyer recommend just registering?

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by kintatsu View Post
    If your work is a work for hire, which it is if it's created in the process of your job, the employer can claim copyright. Including, in most cases, a client unless otherwise specified.
    this is true, but if you are working for someone, as a contract photographer, on assignment with a signed contract ...
    they receive / get the work and are supposed to send you the check, but instead copy the images on their hard drive, send back the images / CD
    say they don't want them ( after duplicating them ) and make up some sort of BS/ DRAMA decide they will not pay you for them ...
    you are not on staff/ work for hire and if you did not register the images with the copyright office ... well ... if they decide they are theirs and you didn't register them ...
    well until you DO register them and claim ownership you are screwed ...

    on the other hand, if you work for starbucks coffee, and invent the upside down carmel/espresso frappuccino .. while an employee .. your invention
    is owned by your employer

    ... there is a HUGE difference
    in the first situation you were robbed by a client
    in the second situation, you were working and starbucks got the benefit of having you as an employee !

  6. #26
    kintatsu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jnanian View Post
    it IS true ...
    court system will no longer see copyright-cases where there is no proof-registration
    this is what a consulted-lawyer told me and what someone at the ASMP told me 8 years ago.

    you are welcome to try but you won't get far.
    The fact is, the law allows it, whether or not it can successfully be concluded is a different matter. It makes sense that if no provable economic loss occurred, the lawyer would find it almost impossible to win, and therefore not take your case.

    Also, if it was for a client or employer, you can't claim copyright unless agreed in advance, in writing. Metadata, printing, display, or publication can be used to provide proof of your copyrights, but can also be used against you.

    Ansel Adams successfully defended his copyright of Moonrise against the US government, who claimed it as a work for hire.

    There are literally millions of mitigating factors!

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by jnanian View Post
    it IS true ...
    court system will no longer see copyright-cases where there is no proof-registration.
    I guess that means self-represented and taking your case to ... Maybe Judge Judy.

  8. #28

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    Before people go off on what is needed for copyright it would be advisable to seek a lawyer's opinion. The following site might be useful, http://smallbusiness.findlaw.com/int...pyright+notice
    A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral.

    ~Antoine de Saint-Exupery

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noble View Post
    Makes sense. I would assume they would want you to sort things out with the copyright office before wasting the courts time.

    In your case why did you think you held the copyright? Why didn't you simply register it and then go to court when you realized there was a problem? Why didn't the lawyer recommend just registering?
    in my case, i DID register the copyright ( takes time to register ) ... and i believed like most people that i owned it when i depressed the shutter.
    ( they were allegedly in a RUSH for the work and buttered me up suggesting i was almost "staff" promised me additional work ( bla bla bla ) )
    i did a "cease and desist" and they stopped ... they made up stories afterwards that it was all "on spec" because they had an open ended contract with me ( something their counsel always told them to do with contractors )
    ... they had me "phase + bill" as i went along .. i got wise and don't work like that anymore ...

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by jnanian View Post
    this is true, but if you are working for someone, as a contract photographer, on assignment with a signed contract ...
    they receive / get the work and are supposed to send you the check, but instead copy the images on their hard drive, send back the images / CD
    say they don't want them ( after duplicating them ) and make up some sort of BS/ DRAMA decide they will not pay you for them ...
    you are not on staff/ work for hire and if you did not register the images with the copyright office ... well ... if they decide they are theirs and you didn't register them ...
    well until you DO register them and claim ownership you are screwed ...

    So why not just register when there is a problem? (edit: I posted this before reading your other post)

    I found this in regards to some time limits and certain statutory damages...

    § 412 . Registration as prerequisite to certain remedies for infringement12

    In any action under this title, other than an action brought for a violation of the rights of the author under section 106A(a), an action for infringement of the copyright of a work that has been preregistered under section 408(f) before the commencement of the infringement and that has an effective date of registration not later than the earlier of 3 months after the first publication of the work or 1 month after the copyright owner has learned of the infringement, or an action instituted under section 411(c), no award of statutory damages or of attorney’s fees, as provided by sections 504 and 505, shall be made for —

    (1) any infringement of copyright in an unpublished work commenced before the effective date of its registration; or

    (2) any infringement of copyright commenced after first publication of the work and before the effective date of its registration, unless such registration is made within three months after the first publication of the work.
    http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap4.html


    I'm no lawyer so I don't quite understand it. But it does seem like within a matter of weeks or months certain things like ATTORNEY'S FEES in some cases will not be awarded. Lawyers usually don't work for free.

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