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  1. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by jnanian View Post
    in my case, i DID register the copyright ( takes time to register ) ... and i believed like most people that i owned it when i depressed the shutter.
    ( they were allegedly in a RUSH for the work and buttered me up suggesting i was almost "staff" promised me additional work ( bla bla bla ) )
    i did a "cease and desist" and they stopped ... they made up stories afterwards that it was all "on spec" because they had an open ended contract with me ( something their counsel always told them to do with contractors )
    ... they had me "phase + bill" as i went along .. i got wise and don't work like that anymore ...
    That is an ugly story and a real eye opener. I don't post anything on the internet unless it is watermarked through a stock agency, but I am definitely going to look into this copyright registration thing. I do this as a hobby and sell very little on the side so I can't afford a lawyer. I'm going to look into registering the stuff that is at the stock agency. Man life is so complicated.

  2. #32

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    i guess the bottom line is copyright - stuff is kind of complicated.
    gang registration is like $65USD and worth every penny ...

    it is best to register because these days it is very easy to grab+go ...
    and people seem to have no morals anymore

    and it seems that the poor mans copyright i mentioned is urban legend / BS
    http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-general.html#what
    http://www.snopes.com/legal/postmark.asp

    better to deal BEFORE not after ...

    oh well ...
    john
    Last edited by jnanian; 05-22-2013 at 12:36 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  3. #33
    Trask's Avatar
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    I've found this an interesting discussion. To my mind, the other side of the question is: what are the odds that you'll find out that someone stole your work? OK, if a company were to misappropriate a photograph and use it in a Super Bowl commercial, you might see it and know to complain. But if that same company took an image and used it in their annual report, what are the odds you'd ever see that? If one were so inclined as to misappropriate images, I bet he/she would get away with it 99% of the time simply on the basis that the odds of the actual photographer seeing the image would be miniscule.

  4. #34
    Steve Smith's Avatar
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    This is the official response to any worries:

    The Enterprise and Regulatory Reform Act 2013 –Your photos and you

    Myth – the provisions remove the automatic right to copyright for owners of photos posted online
    Fact - The powers do not remove copyright for photographs or any other works subject to copyright.

    Myth – anyone can use a photo they have found on the internet as an “orphan” if they cannot find the copyright owner after a search
    Fact – A licence must be obtained to use a work as an “orphan”. This will require the applicant to undertake a diligent search, which will then need to be verified by the independent authorising body which the Government will appoint before a work can be used.

    Myth – works will have their metadata stripped and be licensed en masse as orphans under the Extended Collective Licensing provisions
    Fact – the Orphan Works scheme and Extended Collective Licensing (ECL) are separate and the orphan works scheme is about licensing of individual works.The Government will have no power to impose ECL on a sector, and the safeguards included in the scheme mean that ECL is only likely to be an option where there is strong existing support for collective licensing. Any rights holder who is worried about how their work could be used under an ECL scheme will always retain the ability to opt out.
    It is unlikely that ECL will be an option for photography where there is a strong tradition of direct licensing: there is no collecting society for photographers in the UK, so no application for an ECL is feasible at present.

    Myth – anyone will be able to use my photos for free if they cannot find who owns them?
    Fact – If a work is licensed following the verification of the diligent search, there will be a licence fee payable up-front for its use. The fee will be set at the going rate.

    Myth – anyone can use my photos without my permission
    Fact – Anyone wishing to use a work as an orphan must first undertake a diligent search for the rights-holder which is then verified with permission to use the work granted by the Government appointed independent authorising body. If the work is not genuinely orphan then the rights-holder should be found, if the search is not properly diligent, no licence will be issued.

    Myth – the Act is the Instagram Act
    Fact – Given the steps that must be taken before an orphan work can be copied, such as the diligent search, verification of the search and payment of a going rate fee, it is unlikely that the scheme will be attractive in circumstances where a substitute photograph is available. The rate payable for an orphan work will not undercut non-orphans.

    Myth – a company can take my work and then sub-license it without my knowledge, approval or any payment
    Fact – The licences to use an orphan work will not allow sub-licensing.

    Myth – the stripping of metadata creates an orphan work
    Fact – the absence or removal of metadata does not in itself make a work “orphan” or allow its use under the orphan works scheme

    Myth – I will have to register my photos to claim copyright
    Fact – Copyright will continue to be automatic and there is no need to register a work in order for it to enjoy copyright protection.

    Myth – the UK is doing something radical and unprecedented with the Orphan Works powers
    Fact – Other jurisdictions already allow the use of orphan works. The UK powers are largely based on what happens in Canada – which has been licensing orphan works since 1990.
    From: www.ipo.gov.uk/hargreaves-orphanmyth.pdf

    I think this is the most important bit: A licence must be obtained to use a work as an “orphan”.


    Steve.
    Last edited by Steve Smith; 05-22-2013 at 03:55 AM. Click to view previous post history.
    "People who say things won't work are a dime a dozen. People who figure out how to make things work are worth a fortune" - Dave Rat.

  5. #35
    Steve Smith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jnanian View Post
    and it seems that the poor mans copyright i mentioned is urban legend
    All that proves is that you sent an envelope to yourself. It could have been empty and un-seealed and you put something in it later.


    Steve.
    "People who say things won't work are a dime a dozen. People who figure out how to make things work are worth a fortune" - Dave Rat.

  6. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Smith View Post
    All that proves is that you sent an envelope to yourself. It could have been empty and un-seealed and you put something in it later.


    Steve.

    it can not be opened until before a judge ...
    according to the us copyright office it is not valid
    because ... well the contents of the envelope were not REGISTERED with them ...

  7. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trask View Post
    I've found this an interesting discussion. To my mind, the other side of the question is: what are the odds that you'll find out that someone stole your work? OK, if a company were to misappropriate a photograph and use it in a Super Bowl commercial, you might see it and know to complain. But if that same company took an image and used it in their annual report, what are the odds you'd ever see that? If one were so inclined as to misappropriate images, I bet he/she would get away with it 99% of the time simply on the basis that the odds of the actual photographer seeing the image would be miniscule.
    hi trask

    its strange that a similar discussion ( not really ) is going on here:
    http://www.largeformatphotography.in...right-my-story

    while it is pretty unlikely that people will take random photographs from random people and use them in an annual report
    or billboard campaign or whatever, if someone's work is of a well known person, place, thing, or event, chances are more likely
    that it might get noticed if not used. i assisted someone years ago who used to shuffle his stock images around to the credit card companies
    they loved his crew/regatta images and used them as much as they could ... sometimes they kept using them and he had to slap them on the wrist.
    it seemed like a game of cat n'mouse back then but that's how he got paid and he retained control over his work.

  8. #38
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    Three really important issues are being intermixed here.

    1) the laws of copyright ownership and protection vary from country to country. And the practicalities of copyright vary from country to country;
    2) in the USA, the remedies available to someone whose copyright may have been infringed are dependent on registration. And as any lawyer will tell you, it is all about remedies, because nothing much else matters; and
    3) in the UK, a new wrinkle has been added to copyright law with the ostensible purpose of making it possible to use material for which the copyright owner cannot be identified or located.

    Two observations:

    a) some may recall a relatively recent fuss where Scarlett Johansson suddenly had a bunch of partially naked photos of herself appear on the internet. As it turned out, the photos had been taken by Ms. Johansson herself, using her phone, and someone hacked into her phone and stole them. Ms. Johansson had a lot of success using the courts to prevent the re-use and publication of those photos because, as the photographer, she held the copyright for them, and thus was able to expeditiously obtain a number of injunctions that prevented future breach of that copyright; and
    b) in Canada, unlike most of the world, our traditional rule has been that if you contract with a photographer to have photographs taken, the copyright on those photographs belongs to you, not the photographer. That rule has been recently changed by new legislation to match most of the rest of the world - the photographer is the copyright holder now. This change isn't as important as it may seem though - it has always been the case that the rule may be amended by contract. In a commercial setting, invariably ownership of copyright is dealt with by contract.
    Matt

    “Photography is a complex and fluid medium, and its many factors are not applied in simple sequence. Rather, the process may be likened to the art of the juggler in keeping many balls in the air at one time!”

    Ansel Adams, from the introduction to The Negative - The New Ansel Adams Photography Series / Book 2

  9. #39
    Steve Smith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jnanian View Post
    it can not be opened until before a judge ...
    according to the us copyright office it is not valid
    because ... well the contents of the envelope were not REGISTERED with them ...
    Exactly. You could have mailed yourself an empty envelope a year ago then put something in it a couple of days ago and sealed it.


    Steve.
    "People who say things won't work are a dime a dozen. People who figure out how to make things work are worth a fortune" - Dave Rat.

  10. #40
    marciofs's Avatar
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    If you have the negatives how can someone else have the copyright without a document proving that the work is orphan or that the copyright was transferred to them?

    If someone takes your low resolution image from your website to resell or to use in a marketing campaign, is it not god that you are the only one who can proved high resolution prints? Or even better, the only one who can provide a original traditional print.

    What can they do with low resolution images other than print it small or a large but bad quality print?

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