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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brac View Post
    The point I was making, is that if the new outfit are persuaded by such calls to manufacture B & W film that cannot be good news for the several existing B & W film manufacturers.
    As someone with little understanding of markets and such things, why would this be bad for other manufacturers? I've always thought that competition is a healthy thing for a market.
    "Art is is a picture of some dude I never met smoking under a lamppost at 6400 ISO and in BW."

  2. #22
    StoneNYC's Avatar
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    I was under the impression that the Film Ferrania was preparing to produce all the new Lomography house films, which would mostly include C-41 and E-6 films.

    Also, this is GOOD news for film in general, I doubt they will do B&W emulsions, there's too much competition for that right now between the big three Ilford, Kodak, Fuji and then Rollie, Foma, etc it wouldn't make sense to make B&W right now, but color, especially cinefilm would be a smart move. In fact I would bet they will produce an ECN-2 type film for filming and E-6 movie stock for copy before they produce C-41.

    All opinion...

  3. #23
    AgX
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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneNYC View Post
    ... but color, especially cinefilm would be a smart move. In fact I would bet they will produce an ECN-2 type film for filming and E-6 movie stock for copy before they produce C-41.

    All opinion...
    There are still two major manufacturers making colour cine-films. And the market is declining.

    Cine print film is not E-6 but ECP-2. (Cine camera- and print-films have to be complementary to each other.)

  4. #24
    StoneNYC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AgX View Post
    There are still two major manufacturers making colour cine-films. And the market is declining.

    Cine print film is not E-6 but ECP-2. (Cine camera- and print-films have to be complementary to each other.)
    Is ECP-2 a negative or transparency?

    And Fuji pulled out, it's just Kodak now


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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneNYC View Post
    Is ECP-2 a negative or transparency?

    And Fuji pulled out, it's just Kodak now


    ~Stone | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk
    ECP-2 is a negative.

    The ECN process is used to create a negative, which is subsequently printed on to another transmission oriented negative material, in order to create a positive transparency.

    The C41 process is used to create a negative, which is subsequently printed on to another reflection oriented negative material, in order to create a positive print.

    The requirements of transmission oriented and reflection oriented materials are so substantially different as to require substantially different workflow materials.
    Matt

    “Photography is a complex and fluid medium, and its many factors are not applied in simple sequence. Rather, the process may be likened to the art of the juggler in keeping many balls in the air at one time!”

    Ansel Adams, from the introduction to The Negative - The New Ansel Adams Photography Series / Book 2

  6. #26
    StoneNYC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattKing View Post
    ECP-2 is a negative.

    The ECN process is used to create a negative, which is subsequently printed on to another transmission oriented negative material, in order to create a positive transparency.

    The C41 process is used to create a negative, which is subsequently printed on to another reflection oriented negative material, in order to create a positive print.

    The requirements of transmission oriented and reflection oriented materials are so substantially different as to require substantially different workflow materials.
    So for movie purposes, why not just shoot transparency to begin with? I know they used to...


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    ~Stone | "...of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." ~Dennis Miller

  7. #27
    MattKing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneNYC View Post
    So for movie purposes, why not just shoot transparency to begin with? I know they used to...


    ~Stone | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk
    Because:

    1) movies are edited before they are distributed; and
    2) when they are distributed, they need thousands of copies from each original.

    A positive to positive film copy will always be of lower fidelity than a negative + negative = positive film copy. It is inherent in the nature of the physics involved and the technology available.

    Editing usually involves several copying iterations, and of course the preparation of copies for distribution adds another, so fidelity in the copying process is critical.
    Matt

    “Photography is a complex and fluid medium, and its many factors are not applied in simple sequence. Rather, the process may be likened to the art of the juggler in keeping many balls in the air at one time!”

    Ansel Adams, from the introduction to The Negative - The New Ansel Adams Photography Series / Book 2

  8. #28
    AgX
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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneNYC View Post
    Is ECP-2 a negative or transparency?

    And Fuji pulled out, it's just Kodak now
    ECN is a negative acting material made for taking (camera) purpose.

    ECP is a negative acting material made for viewing purpose (projection transparency). Negative from Negative makes Positive...


    Aside of Kodak Agfa is great in colour cine-film production.




    Quote Originally Posted by StoneNYC View Post
    So for movie purposes, why not just shoot transparency to begin with? I know they used to...
    Using reversal film for cinematographic use is done when most simplicity and economics in the processing is looked for. As in in the amateur field.


    But...

    a two stage process (aside of that editing and multi-prints making issue) enables a lot of variability between the two materials used. This yields various ways to improve quality on several fields, in contrast to a one-step approach.
    Last edited by AgX; 07-23-2013 at 04:00 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattKing View Post
    A positive to positive film copy will always be of lower fidelity than a negative + negative = positive film copy. It is inherent in the nature of the physics involved and the technology available.
    I don't think this is true. One is going to lose some amount of fidelity through both means and a aside from minor process details (which one could, I guess, argue aren't that minor), it should be a wash.
    Stop worrying about grain, resolution, sharpness, and everything else that doesn't have a damn thing to do with substance.

    http://www.flickr.com/kediwah

  10. #30
    AgX
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    See my remarks in post #28.
    The advantages will be much greater than the minimal loss in the copying step.



 

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