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  1. #11
    Rick A's Avatar
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    Film is dead..long live film!
    Rick A
    Argentum aevum
    BTW: the big kid in my avatar is my hero, my son, who proudly serves us in the Navy. "SALUTE"

  2. #12
    clayne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hdeyong View Post
    This is typical. Everything now, whether deliberate or not, is planned to be obsolete in the not-too-distant future. Our economy is now based largely on waste. Nothing gets fixed or upgraded, it get tossed and a new one is bought to replace it.
    Yep. Fight the power.
    Stop worrying about grain, resolution, sharpness, and everything else that doesn't have a damn thing to do with substance.

    http://www.flickr.com/kediwah

  3. #13
    jjphoto's Avatar
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    Storing digital data on HDD's is not a problem as long as you follow a process and basically keep 2 copies, and in separate locations. Inevitably one will fail but it's extremely unlikely both will fail and AT THE SAME TIME! Arguably as likely as a house fire or burglary which could just as easily destroy and film.

    It's also wise to upgrade to current HDD's periodically, with greater capacity.

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by jjphoto View Post
    Storing digital data on HDD's is not a problem as long as you follow a process and basically keep 2 copies, and in separate locations. Inevitably one will fail but it's extremely unlikely both will fail and AT THE SAME TIME! Arguably as likely as a house fire or burglary which could just as easily destroy and film.

    It's also wise to upgrade to current HDD's periodically, with greater capacity.
    Or you can place negatives in a box.

  5. #15
    vpwphoto's Avatar
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    In the end we need to question what we need to keep. I have a couple dozen hard drives humming. And a building that doesn't need another file cabinet.

  6. #16

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    Discs are just so beautiful and sentimental to look at. But the nice thing about them is, even if the data is lost, you can always use them for
    skeet shooting!

  7. #17
    wiltw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjphoto View Post
    Storing digital data on HDD's is not a problem as long as you follow a process and basically keep 2 copies, and in separate locations. Inevitably one will fail but it's extremely unlikely both will fail and AT THE SAME TIME! Arguably as likely as a house fire or burglary which could just as easily destroy and film.

    It's also wise to upgrade to current HDD's periodically, with greater capacity.
    How easy it is to make such statements, when the scope of experience does not span 20-30 years, and the accompanying lack of realization that harddrive controller technology and motherboard buss connectors that they plug into all have evolved multiple times...
    so that it would be very hard for the average consumer to read the data written on harddrives from 30 years ago unless they still owned a PC from back then!

    OTOH, I pulled out some 45 year old B&W negs of Janice Joplin and Big Brother and the Holding Company, shot in 1967-1968, and made prints from them only a couple of years ago.
    Last edited by wiltw; 08-20-2013 at 05:56 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  8. #18
    Truzi's Avatar
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    I work in IT at a University, and I've been tempted to mess with the student techs who think film is bad. I have some old 3.5" DS/DD floppies, and would love to ask them to get "important" documents off of them.

    First they need to find a floppy drive. We have a few in the tech room, though I'm the only one who has them in my machines. Yes, every now and then a professor brings a floppy with important material and either they have no drive, or windows thinks the disk is corrupt and wants to format it (but it's not DS/DD). I use Linux, so this usually isn't an issue for me.

    Then the students would have to learn the disks look like what they know, but are not DS/HD. They then have to learn how to setup the computer to read them, if the BIOS or firmware lets them, and if the floppy drive can handle it.

    If I do this to them, they would hopefully learn backing-up their digital pictures (and class projects) is something that has to be actively maintained - forever. It is not a low-maintenance affair.
    Truzi

  9. #19
    jjphoto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiltw View Post
    How easy it is to make such statements, when the scope of experience does not span 20-30 years, and the accompanying lack of realization that harddrive controller technology and motherboard buss connectors that they plug into all have evolved multiple times...
    so that it would be very hard for the average consumer to read the data written on harddrives from 30 years ago unless they still owned a PC from back then!
    ...
    In fact my background is in Electronics/IT and dates back to the early 80's, ie just about the time the IBM PC was released. That's about 30 years of direct experience with IT/technology obsolescence so I think I can speak with some experience in the field. I think my first digital files date to about 2001 and I have ALL of them, in their 640x480 perfection!

    Quote Originally Posted by jjphoto View Post
    ...It's also wise to upgrade to current HDD's periodically, with greater capacity.
    The reason I said the above is exactly for the reason that you describe, ie because technology does become unreadable eventually and you do have to 'keep-up'. That's all part of the procedure and if you upgrade your drives every so often then you are not only keeping up with technology but probably also reducing the number of drives you have to keep too. Who knows what the next 'data-storage-method-of-choice' will be but eventually you'll have to have your data on it otherwise you WILL loose it. In some respects you are more likely to keep that data than with film, as long as you can keep up to date (ie 2 copies, with one in a second location) but I agree that most people probably won't, in the long term anyway.

    It's true that to some extend you will always be able to print film, even if you have to scan your trannies and print digitally instead of printing Cibachromes or similar chemical prints. However film is not completely immune to degradation/damage either. I have plenty of film (B+W and trannies) dating to the early 80's, all kept carefully in storage sleeves, which have stuck to sleeves to varying degrees and done some minor damage (maybe this can be cleaned/dealt with, I don't know, maybe the sleeves I've used where not adequate, maybe the storage conditions, maybe, maybe...). Ironically the B+W films wrapped in sheets of plain paper are just fine.

  10. #20
    Ken Nadvornick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truzi View Post
    I have some old 3.5" DS/DD floppies, and would love to ask them to get "important" documents off of them.
    If you really want to drive them insane I have some 8-inch SS/SD floppies somewhere around here. As I recall, the drive was about the size of a laser printer. And you had to specify custom "blocking factors" to write anything. Essentially each write operation was also a formatting operation.

    Hand them one of these and tell them that it contains the next winning lottery number...



    Ken
    "Hate is an adolescent term used to stop discussion with people you disagree with. You can do better than that."
    —'blanksy', December 13, 2013

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